4E vs 5E
- Thread starter Djaniero
- Start date
Jay
Admin
Totally agree, any engine can fail if the tune is poor. Knock is an engine killer.
Knock control is a safety net and that one in the link looks to be a wise investment as the stock version doesn't handle tuned engines too well.
As stated boxes like that are a standalone extra in the background, not part of the engine management (not true for higher end Link ECU's, they have it built in) so doesn't feature on most builds as a result. We generally set up the vehicle with det cans, ensure there's no knock audible and away it goes. No one wonders 'what if' I get a tank of bad fuel, 'what if' my cheapo ebay wastegate fails and I overboost, 'what if' a fuel pump goes faulty and it runs lean, etc etc.
Certainly a nice back up to have in those scenarios, would pay for itself considering the cost of rebuilding a blown motor.
Knock control is a safety net and that one in the link looks to be a wise investment as the stock version doesn't handle tuned engines too well.
As stated boxes like that are a standalone extra in the background, not part of the engine management (not true for higher end Link ECU's, they have it built in) so doesn't feature on most builds as a result. We generally set up the vehicle with det cans, ensure there's no knock audible and away it goes. No one wonders 'what if' I get a tank of bad fuel, 'what if' my cheapo ebay wastegate fails and I overboost, 'what if' a fuel pump goes faulty and it runs lean, etc etc.
Certainly a nice back up to have in those scenarios, would pay for itself considering the cost of rebuilding a blown motor.
Djaniero
Member +
Really informative thread. Thanks a lot to the Gurus for sharing their knowledge.
On my Me221 ECU, its listed as having Dsp knock detection. Will that be sufficient enough?
On my Me221 ECU, its listed as having Dsp knock detection. Will that be sufficient enough?
Well depending on which country you listen to lol... The overseas guys have boosted the stock 5Es with good results. But this side of the world say that we should forge them before boosting them. I'm still in deliberation mode, of which route to go :s
SKINY
Lifer
Yea true lol, they really know there onions over the other side, wonder are we just a bit too safe over here lmao
As said a good map and mapper is the way
If you did forge it it should be strong enough to handle a good thrashing then IF you wanted more hp its waiting on it bud
Roadtrip to Sri Lanka for mapping then lol
As said a good map and mapper is the way
If you did forge it it should be strong enough to handle a good thrashing then IF you wanted more hp its waiting on it bud
Roadtrip to Sri Lanka for mapping then
lol
Djaniero
Member +
True man. Mind you I know of a few UK guys that have been running 1.2 bar on stock 4efte with td04 for quite some time with no issues.
lol @ Sri Lanka to map. Thankfully I've found a reputable tuner to too far from where I live, and he's actually mapped a couple of members cars off here with good results which is promising.
Be interesting to see what he can get out of my setup reliably.
lol @ Sri Lanka to map. Thankfully I've found a reputable tuner to too far from where I live, and he's actually mapped a couple of members cars off here with good results which is promising.
Be interesting to see what he can get out of my setup reliably.
gorganl2000
Lifer
http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/community/index.php?threads/whose-done-a-5e-conversion.9694/
that's a basic build there i explained using 4efte pistons or even more basic is to just tune a stock 5efe/5efhe
scroll about half way down pg 1
the engine in that description i ran for 10 years with all the various turbo set ups mentioned in this tread (ct9, td04l, vf series, etc)...nothing blew...its now my spare engine "old faithful" more or less.... i won't say there is any one way to do this type of project, it's however dependent upon your budget, general tuning culture , tuner's ability, etc....as you can see different regions do things differently.
like Jay mentioned, my tuner pays great attention to knock detection when tuning my car. He uses some knock detection equipment which he monitors and listens to while tuning to make sure the engine is happy at every stage, increasing slowly.
i'm very careful with my vehicles/engines/maintenance in general and i believe this helps with longevity whether its a stock or forged build...things like poor maintenance, bad tuning, reckless driving style, etc will destroy a vehicle and engine regardless if its stock or forged
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wickedep
Trader
Yea true lol, they really know there onions over the other side, wonder are we just a bit too safe over here lmao
As said a good map and mapper is the way
If you did forge it it should be strong enough to handle a good thrashing then IF you wanted more hp its waiting on it bud
Roadtrip to Sri Lanka for mapping then
hahaha..
The "Simple" answer is "YES" it will! As that is exactly why that function is there. But as they say, "the Devil is in the details??" That "function" has to b properly "tuned??" Engine "Noise" ie piston slap, valve train noise etc ... has to be "filtered out" from regular "engine noise. Stand Alone's with ECU's for "Knock Control" can do it but it's separate part of proper "Tuning."
Yea from reading up everyone here sais above 250hp you need to be forged, I'm only hoping for 200/220 with the tf035 so not bothered just yet
I think you are referring to people saying you can run stock Gt rods at 230fhp, 5EFHE rods will be more but the less fuel of 230hp can bring pre-ignition benefits.You are are on to something there I recall Dans 5e TF035 dyno in OZ working at 200whp( 233 crankHP ) but that was at 19.5psi so the tfo35 will need boost consideration, fueling,temps etc as people have indicated.
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SKINY
Lifer
Yea bud, totally stock engine. Think it was the Caribbean lads I read about pushing up to 300 on the standard engines, it's all about the tune and tuner
I seen psi racing on Instagram filling the blocks with concrete for high hp strength, but that's drag racing completely different story lol
Yea I find the stock thing interesting too. For example the Stock Sera 5Efhe has a tacho that goes to 9000 rpm. Yet the recommended terminal piston velocity/force for a 1.5 piston is 7500rpm and gives 270fhp at 20c. This exactly matches the terminal piston velocity/force of a 1.3 piston at 9000 rpm at say 270fhp.
I have read in posts that the 5eFHE piston is good for 270fhp I often wonder if the stock 4e gt piston is also meant for 270fhp
especially given japan had a 280HP engine limit in their regulations.
Add to that the prototype car designed for the Sera was actually a 1.3 engine then the Sera tacho makes sense, also you have to figure more power was intended for the 5E as I heard the change to the low fuel using Sera 1.5 was a late design change
I have read in posts that the 5eFHE piston is good for 270fhp I often wonder if the stock 4e gt piston is also meant for 270fhp
especially given japan had a 280HP engine limit in their regulations.
Add to that the prototype car designed for the Sera was actually a 1.3 engine then the Sera tacho makes sense, also you have to figure more power was intended for the 5E as I heard the change to the low fuel using Sera 1.5 was a late design change
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Djaniero
Member +
I potentially maybe getting my hands on a forged 5E block.
Can anyone tell me roughly what bhp/torque figures I can safely run with this block and my td04 setup?
I have a WEPR Td04 kit with supporting mods and standalone ecu.
Its strictly a street car - daily sometimes but mostly a weekend blaster - so not really chasing figures, but would be good to know what sort of power I could run safely.
Can anyone tell me roughly what bhp/torque figures I can safely run with this block and my td04 setup?
I have a WEPR Td04 kit with supporting mods and standalone ecu.
Its strictly a street car - daily sometimes but mostly a weekend blaster - so not really chasing figures, but would be good to know what sort of power I could run safely.
Calum122
Member +
300hp you then start running into gearbox issues.
My goal would be 250 WHP and leave it as that.
Djaniero
Member +
Thread revival!!!!
Still sat on the fence about this lads....having even more time to mull it over now we're on lockdown.
I was speaking to another Starlet owner the other day, and they said that once my current engine is remapped with the td04 running 1 bar of boost, it will be plenty fast enough for a road car. I don't even plan on going on track. The sole aim was to have quick weekend warrior.
My currently engine was freshly rebuilt around 4k miles ago and runs flawlessly.
Failing that, I buy the forged 5E block I got offered, have it fitted and remapped with td04....apparently the td04 behaves more like a ct9 on a 5E engine?
Still sat on the fence about this lads
....having even more time to mull it over now we're on lockdown.I was speaking to another Starlet owner the other day, and they said that once my current engine is remapped with the td04 running 1 bar of boost, it will be plenty fast enough for a road car. I don't even plan on going on track. The sole aim was to have quick weekend warrior.
My currently engine was freshly rebuilt around 4k miles ago and runs flawlessly.
Failing that, I buy the forged 5E block I got offered, have it fitted and remapped with td04....apparently the td04 behaves more like a ct9 on a 5E engine?
Jay
Admin
The low down torque delivery of the 5E makes a lot of difference to how the car drives. We've seen it back to back on a dyno that the 5E builds power quicker as a result and this makes it a lot easier to drive. The peak power isn't massively different tbh, the 4E still offers the figures everyone wants, but in my experience the 5E is good option if you have the choice.