4efte forged build guidance needed

Calum122

Member +
Right, I can't be the only one.

I'm still confused.

Taiho supply Toyota the bearings, then Toyota slaps on an extra £200 odd quid. Why would got to Toyota when Taiho do a variety of sizes for your needs for a fraction of the price?
 
Thanks for all the helpfull responses, i have come across this forged block from future motorsports which actually works out cheaper to ship to australia than to buid one here myself, has anyone heard of these guys or have experience with this block? Pic uploaded with the specs
 

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H_D

Member +
Thanks for all the helpfull responses, i have come across this forged block from future motorsports which actually works out cheaper to ship to australia than to buid one here myself, has anyone heard of these guys or have experience with this block? Pic uploaded with the specs


yes I know them very well, good guys there and prices seem a lot better than everywhere else, I purchase all of my aftermarket parts from them
 

Padders_GT

Member
Right, I can't be the only one.

I'm still confused.

Taiho supply Toyota the bearings, then Toyota slaps on an extra £200 odd quid. Why would got to Toyota when Taiho do a variety of sizes for your needs for a fraction of the price?

What's difficult to understand?

Toyota are the only ones who do 4 (I think it is) different STD sized bearings. No-one else offers that..only std / .25 and .50....what' hard to understand?
 

Calum122

Member +
What's difficult to understand?

Toyota are the only ones who do 4 (I think it is) different STD sized bearings. No-one else offers that..only std / .25 and .50....what' hard to understand?
No one mentions four, Jay says three then Skiny linked to the various sizes.

What's hard to understand is that if Taiho sell various size bearings for a fraction of the price, and Toyota Use Taiho bearings, then why would you pay absurds amounts of money for the same bearing.

I get it if you can get sizes from Toyota that you can't get from Taiho, but skiny already linked in the various sizes
 

Padders_GT

Member
No one mentions four, Jay says three then Skiny linked to the various sizes.

What's hard to understand is that if Taiho sell various size bearings for a fraction of the price, and Toyota Use Taiho bearings, then why would you pay absurds amounts of money for the same bearing.

I get it if you can get sizes from Toyota that you can't get from Taiho, but skiny already linked in the various sizes

BECAUSE TAIHO ONLY DO ONE STANDARD SIZE!

TOYOTA OFFER 3 OR 4 STANDARD SIZE BEARINGS

ARE YOU STUPID?
 

SKINY

Lifer
Fuck what have I started :eek: Padders GT, calm down dear, we are all here to learn. I first heard about Taiho bearings off a well respected member on here so I'm simply sharing what I've heard ;)

That forged engine looks a good deal, I was on the site yesterday having a trawl through, the thing I would want to know too as it's not mentioned is, oil pump, water pump and gasket kit and belts. Are they included or extra ? :)
 

Jay

Admin
I'll say it in lower case lol

Toyota have three sizes (1,2 &3) that they can supply to allow for discrepancies in the machining of the crank. When the engine is built they measure the clearances and fit the appropriate version. On stripping the engine you should find a 1, 2 or 3 stamped on the bearings. So long as the engine hasn't seen too much action you would expect that not too much has changed but this is where a lot of folks go wrong in fitting like for like. You need to check for wear and spec your new bearings to match the crank accordingly. Just firing in what came out of it might result in big issues. Big expensive issues.

Aftermarket alternatives are supplied to match only one of these three standard sizes (let's say size 2 and not 1 and 3). Even in an ideal case where the crank has not worn, if you fit the wrong size bearing the clearances are going to be out of whack. Again it's all about doublechecking the measurements. If they aren't within tolerance you could have an expensive engine failure to deal with further down the line.

Oversize bearings are used when the crank has been reground to retain the clearances. Again you measure first, work out what you need and buy to suit.

The fact that Taiho supply Toyota means that they do make all the sizes but I've never explored buying them myself. It begs the question can you ask them for any of the three sizes?

From memory ACL only offer the standard size 2 which is available in oversized variations.
 

Calum122

Member +
BECAUSE TAIHO ONLY DO ONE STANDARD SIZE!

TOYOTA OFFER 3 OR 4 STANDARD SIZE BEARINGS

ARE YOU STUPID?

I've never built a four stroke engine before, only two strokes which use needle bearings for the connecting rods not shells.

I've never heard of 1, 2 or three standard sizes before. I've only mildly been aware that a crank could need a regrind and require 0.25 undersize etc.

So what you're saying is that, as well as the undersize, there is also another measurement for the crank shells?

That seems rediculous, surely the cranks are cast, then machined down to spec, I can understand the regrind bit, but you're also telling me there are other sizes, named 1, 2 & 3, which describe the condition of the crank as it left the factory.

And when you rebuild the bottom end, provided it's not excessively worn, you're supposed to choose the number that is on the shells as well as the overgrind value?

If, say you just bought a crank off eBay, how do you know what standard size to put it?

Yeah I do lack understanding in this area, and will get around to rebuilding my Starlet engine one day so it's really useful information to know. Having built lots of two strokes in the past, this is not a concept I'm familiar with.
 
Calum122 in response to your last post, i believe that the different sizes are made because you can have different wear on different parts of the crank, so if rebuilding and not machining the crank you may have to buy more than one set of bearings as each bearing you install may need to be a different size, if the crank is machined then all surfaces of the crank are even and one set of oversized bearings will work
 

Calum122

Member +
Calum122 in response to your last post, i believe that the different sizes are made because you can have different wear on different parts of the crank, so if rebuilding and not machining the crank you may have to buy more than one set of bearings as each bearing you install may need to be a different size, if the crank is machined then all surfaces of the crank are even and one set of oversized bearings will work
So can you not worry about these "Std" sizes and just have the crank machined and use undersized bearings?
 

SKINY

Lifer
we'll your not going to have to worry about bearings if you buy the built block from Future Motorsport then :) they will build it to your spec, did you ask them about pumps and gaskets ?
 

Padders_GT

Member
So can you not worry about these "Std" sizes and just have the crank machined and use undersized bearings?

Yes you can, but a lot of cranks are nitride coated which only penetrates so far into the metal. So if you re-grind them you can lose that hard nitride coating, which isn't ideal.

I don't know if Toyota did nitride the 4efte cranks or not, but that's a general insight. If you can get away with not re-grinding the crank it's always best as long as the oil clearance between journal and bearing is correct. You'll find a lot of these ' Tuning / Performance engine builders ' don't even do oil clearances, they just slap any old std bearing in, and that's a fact! I've seen it done so many times! Tuning Developments cough cough....
 

wickedep

Trader
over here people rarely ever go to the dealer because typically they are more expensive and take months to get parts down. Toyota offers Taiho in all sizes. any Taiho dealers will have some same sizes at a cheaper price (and usually in stock). its been a while since i had buy some main/big end bearing...but from memory the whole cost around £50-60. nothing more. not that any of this info would be very helpful to you guys who are over the pond...just sharing my 2c.

as for buying a built long block....it may be cheaper..but i feel it better to have it done locally as you can make sure everything and all clearances are done to spec. if anything goes wrong, you can easily hold someone accountable for warranty etc. buy a block from overseas and something goes wrong..you may as well throw away your money. again just my 2c.
 

Padders_GT

Member
over here people rarely ever go to the dealer because typically they are more expensive and take months to get parts down. Toyota offers Taiho in all sizes. any Taiho dealers will have some same sizes at a cheaper price (and usually in stock). its been a while since i had buy some main/big end bearing...but from memory the whole cost around £50-60. nothing more. not that any of this info would be very helpful to you guys who are over the pond...just sharing my 2c.

as for buying a built long block....it may be cheaper..but i feel it better to have it done locally as you can make sure everything and all clearances are done to spec. if anything goes wrong, you can easily hold someone accountable for warranty etc. buy a block from overseas and something goes wrong..you may as well throw away your money. again just my 2c.

Yes we know Taiho supply Toyota. But to find a Taiho dealer who sell the 3 different types of STD main and big end bearings we are struggling. If anyone can that would be a great find.
 
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