CT9 vs TD12 vs TD04 - Pros & Cons

Texx

Super Moderator
Since my manifold has near enough shat itself beyond repair, I've been trying to decide the best way to rectify the situation. Do I port out my stock manifold and just keep that on the car or do I spend money on another aftermarket manifold that's just another simple replacement for what I've already got? Both of these options seem to me to be a pointless exercise apart from curing the extreme exhaust leak. So the next obvious choice would be to change to a TD04 set up, however I'm not so sure it'll provide what I want?

I'm not interested in drag racing the thing or driving around everywhere flat out and I'm not really interested in chasing any phallus enhancing power figures. What I am interested in though is maintaining some of the response that the stock CT9 delivers, but maybe sacrifice a little from lower in the rev range for a bit more grunt further up. I want the car to drive well on the road and not have to work at it to get it going. I don't want a set up that can't provide boost when I open the throttle in 5th gear when on the motorway, if I need to drop a gear to get going then I've made the wrong choice.

So if a TD04 set up cannot provide what I want, then the next obvious option would be some form of Hybrid CT9 set up. After looking at the range of available options, the Tong Turbos TD12 appears to be a promising candidate as an alternative. However this then begs to question as to whether a Hybrid CT9 will realistically provide a sufficient gain in performance over the stock CT9 to warrant the price tag? So maybe I'd be better off keeping the stock CT9 and buying another basic aftermarket manifold to replace the one that's falling apart?

I'll likely be replacing the stock management with the Haltech Platinum Sprint 500 ECU. It's list of features, seemingly well designed 'ECU Manager' software and price tag makes it the main contender, although I still haven't ruled out using a Megasquirt based set up. Either way I should have the potential to support whichever turbo option I opt for.


So do I go for an externally gated TD04 set up or a Hybrid CT set up using a WEPR externally gated power up kit?

Or can the stock CT9 provide me with what I want? Boost is currently set at 0.8bar with the stock ECU, at 1bar with better management maybe I'll get what I'm looking for?


What are the pros and cons of your set up?
TD04 users, do you miss any of the response you had from the stock CT9 or previous hybrid?
Hybrid CT9 users, do you honestly believe you made the right decision to stay with a CT9 based set up?
 

accent_97

Member +
as far as i know the standard turbo can spool to 1 bar without a problem but between a td 04 and a standard ct9 the td 04 at 1bar will remain more cooler than a standard ct9 at 1 bar
 

Fizturbo

Member +
Av been runin on 1bar for around 9yrs,
used ct9 and ct9b,various ct9 hybrids and now on TD04 i was tempted to go for TD12. On take of i miss the spool up response of the ct9 which is Awesome!
At the moment am really Enjoyin the TD04 power and i wish i went this route from the beginin,i had nothin but bad luck with the CT9 hybrids.
 

Gtstu

Member +
when i had my engine forged etc by toytuning i had one of there hybrids for about 6 months it was an improvment but then i went externally gated td04 its 100 times better the response is a tiny bit later but the pull is so much better and i wish i didnt waste aload of money on a hybrid and manifold etc. The so called lag isnt really an issue imo.Also its cheaper to buy a td04 setup than a hybrid setup.
 

bucketep91

Member +
i went through the same dilema iv sold my glanza and buying a ep95, i had a tongs GT spec B hybrid on the glanza and it was awsome tbh, a big improvement over the stock unit. iv decided to go forged tdo4 with the next 1 and bit the bullet and baught myself a tdo4 kit. cant wait to see the difference to the hybrid. hope its not too laggy as i loved the respnse of the hybrid
 
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whiteglanzav

Member +
i was using the td04 on my car and have recently been driving a nearstandard glanza - and the response of the ct9 is a lot more than the td04 but when the td04 comes on boost it really does put a smile on your face and pull like a train - from the powergraphs i have seen on uksc a td12 would look like the obvious choice for what you want with spool and power - also if you havent got custom intercooler piping then that is somthing i woulsd strongly advise as the difference in spool is amazing and you really do notice it - so to combine that with a td12 and a stock "ported" mani with a decat you will be laughing
 

whiteglanzav

Member +
just to add - i was making 1 bar on the td04 at around 3750 - which i thought was pretty good and it started to spool like 3300

and the glanza im in at the mo starts to boost at around 2500
 

Texx

Super Moderator
just to add - i was making 1 bar on the td04 at around 3750 - which i thought was pretty good and it started to spool like 3300

and the glanza im in at the mo starts to boost at around 2500

This is one of my main concerns with using a TD04. What I like about the CT9 is that when cruising along in 5th at about 60mph (approx 3000rpm), cracking the throttle open a little further will effortlessly pull to the car up to 80mph+ without any need to drop a gear first.

Can a TD04 still provide this kind of lazy driving? Or does it require you to work a little more to get some usable boost?
 

bucketep91

Member +
just to add - i was making 1 bar on the td04 at around 3750 - which i thought was pretty good and it started to spool like 3300

and the glanza im in at the mo starts to boost at around 2500

id be happy to get full boost by 3750, i hit 1 bar on the hybrid just under 3k
 

whiteglanzav

Member +
This is one of my main concerns with using a TD04. What I like about the CT9 is that when cruising along in 5th at about 60mph (approx 3000rpm), cracking the throttle open a little further will effortlessly pull to the car up to 80mph+ without any need to drop a gear first.

Can a TD04 still provide this kind of lazy driving? Or does it require you to work a little more to get some usable boost?

the thing is with the td04 you will probobly already be doing 80mph lol

but seriously if you are at like 3k in 5th and put your foot down it will take a second or two but then you will get to 80 easy -

and if you just want to start pulling a bit more then change to 4th - the lag is really not that bad it is easily live-with-able
 

whiteglanzav

Member +
and if you were to be doing 60 in 5th then changed to third and floor it - it will push you back in the seat and you will be easily doing 90 in a few seconds . . . . . .
 

bumblebee

Member +
i was using the td04 on my car and have recently been driving a nearstandard glanza - and the response of the ct9 is a lot more than the td04 but when the td04 comes on boost it really does put a smile on your face and pull like a train - from the powergraphs i have seen on uksc a td12 would look like the obvious choice for what you want with spool and power - also if you havent got custom intercooler piping then that is somthing i woulsd strongly advise as the difference in spool is amazing and you really do notice it - so to combine that with a td12 and a stock "ported" mani with a decat you will be laughing

from looking at the pwoer graph of the TD12 looks like it spools like a CT9 with nearly as much punch as the TD04 higher up in the revs

can go wrong there..but for people on a budget..its more affordable to go TD04
 

richglanzav

Member +
td04 is just the best. a bit of lag yeh but its easy to control and keep in boost if u wna...plus the power delivery when it comes in is a whole different level.

mine was 1.1 bar and in 4th gear at 50mph no change down required just foot to the floor would just go up over a tonne in literally seconds.
 
ported mani (done properly)

adaptor plate

TD04

full boost before 3000rpm

been running at 1.2bar on a standard engine for the guts of a year now

If I were you it's the way I would be going that way.

Rich
 

Texx

Super Moderator
TD04

full boost before 3000rpm

running at 1.2bar


That's quite an interesting concept. Did you do anything special to get full boost by 3000rpm Rich?

If a TD04 can deliver good usable boost (doesn't need to be full boost) no later than 3200rpm then it'll probably serve my needs.
 

Iain@CRD

Lifer
That's quite an interesting concept. Did you do anything special to get full boost by 3000rpm Rich?

If a TD04 can deliver good usable boost (doesn't need to be full boost) no later than 3200rpm then it'll probably serve my needs.

TD04, 1.4bar and full boost by 3700rpm.

Ported and polished head i suppose does help me.

But when im cruising at 60/70mph i can easily put my foot down in 5th and it takes a second to build up then it pulls like a train.

Its much better and quicker spool up now that Chris mapped it tho, i suspect i get full boost alot earlier now.
 

Texx

Super Moderator
Any hybrid CT9 users want to comment on how good or disappointing they found their choice of turbo to be?
 

dac69er

Super Moderator
your specs of what you want sound very similar to mine. i toyed with the idea of td04 but in the end opted for a tongs hybrid ct9.

i am extremely happy with the way my car goes. ignoring the noisy exhaust it drives smoothly and effortlessly. you dont even need to be on boost to get a good pull from it, my dad was amazed at how well the car actually drove.

when the car comes onto boost (which is a little later than the ct9) it pulls really well and does run out of puff. the power is more constant whereas the stock ct9 has a big surge then dies off up the top.

the power is manageable, but if you can still come unstuck if you really push your luck. i think much more power on the road would be wasted in fwd.

i think alot of it comes down to the mapping.


i am going to try a td04 setup on my 4wd starlet though.
 

TurboDave

Member +
I have my hybrid and wouldnt swap it for a larger turbo, loads of low end power, plenty of top end and virtually no lag in any gear. It does depend on what the car is intended to be used for but where I live there are a lot mountain roads etc and a large turbo'd EP would be pretty useless on them..

Here's a copy of my graph at 1.2 bar when i was mapped 2 years ago, it was dropping off boost up the top end due to a boost controller issue but now pulls cleanly at 1.3 bar all the way to the limiter.

scan0001-2.jpg
 
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