Spark + Fuel = No Fire?? Help Please!!

M

Myweegem5

Member
Thanks SKINY, it sounds like what I was thinking about making up earlier but me not very good at welding and I thought it could be time consuming so I ended up finding a quick way on Google where u remove 1 spark plug, rotate crank so the piston is down below TDC, feed in to the cylinder a long piece of strong string (paracord was what I used), then when the cylinder is full of string, rotate the pulley bolt and the piston cant compress the string so it doesn't budge and I got my torque spec within a half turn! It couldn't have worked any better and had it done in 10mins.:)
Got d mount back into position and going to try finish putting all the other bits back on now, then time to check out the smoke!
 
M

Myweegem5

Member
So alls back together but after letting it idle for a bit and then revving it some it then decides to cut out instead of idling. So it needs some throttle to keep it running and the same for starting. What could cause this, idle control valve maybe?
 
Jay

Jay

Admin
Has your electrical timing been set?

Could just need a timing light and some fettling with the dizzy to sort.

Diagnostic mode and look for 10 degrees btdc (its marked on the lower pulley cover).
 
S

Skalabala

Member +
Awesome stuff!

Start by setting the ignition timing. You need to bridge TE1 and E1 with a wire. Then use a timing light while car is idling. Timing must be spot on 10deg.
Do a compression test now that your cam timing is set correct.
You said you have a MAP sensor problem? Replace it.
 
M

Myweegem5

Member
Thanks, I actually haven't set the electrical timing and I did have the dizzy cap off but just the cap itself never removed the actual distributor. I will have to look into purchasing a timing light, are they all the same accuracy wise?

It will be interesting to see the results on another compression test now but in honesty my first attempts were a bit messy and the results were all over the place and inconsistent.
I will also swap the Map sensor and see if there is any difference but it's odd that the code for it came back on the system after it cleared before somehow.
 
S

Skalabala

Member +
Dont drive with the car before you sort it out :)
A turbocharged car with problems is like a timed bomb. Its not if it will blow its when.
So do the MAP sensor and then do the timing.
Compression test will be a good idea.
 
M

Myweegem5

Member
Ok so the weekend has knocked me back a bit but I'm going to check out the above when I get a timing light.
I don't intend to do any driving really for a while so hopefully its sorted by then :)
I have changed the Map sensor for a Glanza one and it made no difference.

I've done a new compression test but this time I was able to warm up the engine first. My results of this DRY Test below:

(After cranking the engine over 6 times on each cylinder)
Cylinder 1 165 psi
Cylinder 2 165 psi
Cylinder 3 165 psi
Cylinder 4 165 psi

These were the results give or take one or two psi on each cylinder. I then pushed the readings further on each cylinder by cranking them 12 more times each and I got 170 psi across all 4 cylinders give or take one or two psi. So I feel much happier with my results now compared to my initial testing results and it shows how much the timing can throw you off. I didn't bother with a wet test this time as I didn't see the need considering my results were all pretty much equal.

Since I that and after running engine after the compression test and refitting everything I got trouble code 12 for RPM SIGNAL or TDC SIGNAL. I still have the code for map sensor too so going to check the wiring again. The engine runs but its smoky and when the accelerator is floored at around 4000rpm and above it seems to backfire and puts out a load of black smoke but then starts to clear itself from the smoke a little.
So the engine starts and warms up by itself but gradually decreases its RPM and dies. Throttle on keeps it running and same for restarting, its smoky and when I pulled my new plugs they were black from being covered in what looks like soot.
I didn't do anything with my actual distributor only removed and replaced the distributor cap so I'm thinking it must be something else although i will be checking out the ignition timing later. Is there anything else that may cause this issue?
 
Jay

Jay

Admin
Just to throw a wildcard in there, I had a similar idle dying issue before and it turned out to be the ECU. Probably isn't the answer but it's just the way you described it that makes me wonder. If you have a spare ECU pop it in and see what happens. Mine failed on the driveway with no symptoms beforehand.
 
SKINY

SKINY

Lifer
ECU failure is fairly common with the older celicas, particularly the GT-FOUR.
Worth a check too see mate, resistors break down and leak sometimes damaging the board, any competent spark should sort it out handy and the resistors are pennies :)
 
M

Myweegem5

Member
Ok well Jay I'm not liking your post because you have me scared now. I like SKINY's post only because if it turns out to be the ECU then it sounds like it could be a cheap fix. I have had trouble with an ECU in another car before and I had to replace it and that cost more than I liked and it was a used one.

I haven't got a spare ECU handy so I will have to inspect my own thoroughly if I can't find anything else wrong. I will admit I have recently unplugged the ECU's 2 plugs and reconnected to see if it made any difference to my previous starting issue that turned out to be the timing belt. I looked around the wires going to the plugs and the contacts on both sides and all looked good but maybe that has caused some of this. I also had disconnected and reconnected both the FCD and the turbo timer at that time and I did make some mistake when reconnecting as I could smell smoke when I turned the key and felt the wire I joined was hot so I swapped them over and all was grand. Could that have anything to do with it?
 
S

Skalabala

Member +
You could have blown something. You need map sensor and tdc code to be sorted, it will not run correct with that problem.
Maybe change the distributor. Or have a good go at going through the wires and plugs.
 
M

Myweegem5

Member
Hate the thoughts of testing all the wires end to end I don't even know what readings I should be getting or which wire goes where on the engine side from ECU plug.

I did find a vid on YouTube for testing a Toyota map sensor and I reckon it prob is the same but the funny thing is both map sensors I have are giving me the same output voltage when tested and they are out of spec if I can compare to the one on the YouTube video. If anyone could tell me here what there map sensor voltage output is reading following the test it would be great as there hard to find here and seemingly Toyota has discontinued them. There also not cheap.
 
M

Myweegem5

Member
Jay said:
Just to throw a wildcard in there, I had a similar idle dying issue before and it turned out to be the ECU. Probably isn't the answer but it's just the way you described it that makes me wonder. If you have a spare ECU pop it in and see what happens. Mine failed on the driveway with no symptoms beforehand.
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