3SGTE start up: A closer look.

anyone who claims they can do 1000bhp without constant stripdowns is talking out there arse.

the drag car was 955bhp and was a 2ltr 3sgte. but that only did 1/4mile drag runs but ran a 9000rpm redline. but using a GT4094r turbocharger at 2.7bar of boost pressure.

main issues you wouldn't put the power down as we kept snapping driveshafts, even the fancy chomemoly versions,we tried everything and kept going. another issue was even with 150shot nitrous the turbo wouldn't make full boost to 6500rpm. and at 5500rpm the car made 78bhp, then jumped to over 650 in 1000rpm.

Because of the extreme pressures and piston velocities it would eat bearings and rings. We used to about 8 runs a weekend and after 2-3 weekends it was ready for a strip down where it would show excessive ring gap expansion, and bearings had excessive wear.

the block actually didn't fail but we were running a very low 7.0:1 CR to achieve this, we did do testing around 9.0:1 and made similar power through the revband but 0.5bar less boost only issue was it kept ripping the head off. Even had special L19 ARP stud system made and still kept causing lift, and then there was a block cracking issue.

1000bhp i can do but expect about a 500-1000mile service life, and 1000mile is being generous. remember the 3/4 million pound WRC rally cars, running 2.4bar boost but only 300bhp. they have a 700mile service life and then need total strip down and overhaul.

this is talking from experience, don't expect to build it and never take it apart again. think of this like a gun. you build it. have a good weekend playing with it, then take it apart reoil it and then put it away for another weekend. but in the case of the car you need to replace wear items.

Tim :)
 

pc18

North West England Area Rep.
i have a friend with a tte wrc block in his gt4 the engine has an immense spec. if it was to run one of the new gt35's so say maybe making around or up to 700bhp how long do you think it would last before excesssive wear and a rebuild would be required?
 

corofin12345

Member +
anyone who claims they can do 1000bhp without constant stripdowns is talking out there arse.

the drag car was 955bhp and was a 2ltr 3sgte. but that only did 1/4mile drag runs but ran a 9000rpm redline. but using a GT4094r turbocharger at 2.7bar of boost pressure.

main issues you wouldn't put the power down as we kept snapping driveshafts, even the fancy chomemoly versions,we tried everything and kept going. another issue was even with 150shot nitrous the turbo wouldn't make full boost to 6500rpm. and at 5500rpm the car made 78bhp, then jumped to over 650 in 1000rpm.

Because of the extreme pressures and piston velocities it would eat bearings and rings. We used to about 8 runs a weekend and after 2-3 weekends it was ready for a strip down where it would show excessive ring gap expansion, and bearings had excessive wear.

the block actually didn't fail but we were running a very low 7.0:1 CR to achieve this, we did do testing around 9.0:1 and made similar power through the revband but 0.5bar less boost only issue was it kept ripping the head off. Even had special L19 ARP stud system made and still kept causing lift, and then there was a block cracking issue.

1000bhp i can do but expect about a 500-1000mile service life, and 1000mile is being generous. remember the 3/4 million pound WRC rally cars, running 2.4bar boost but only 300bhp. they have a 700mile service life and then need total strip down and overhaul.

this is talking from experience, don't expect to build it and never take it apart again. think of this like a gun. you build it. have a good weekend playing with it, then take it apart reoil it and then put it away for another weekend. but in the case of the car you need to replace wear items.

Tim :)

this may interest you, thats if you dont already know about it :)

http://www.toyotaownersclub-irl.com/t1092p630-3sgte-4wd-corolla

(forgive the link as im not going copying every single picture on here of this epic build)
 

TheStarletGT

Member +
anyone who claims they can do 1000bhp without constant stripdowns is talking out there arse.

the drag car was 955bhp and was a 2ltr 3sgte. but that only did 1/4mile drag runs but ran a 9000rpm redline. but using a GT4094r turbocharger at 2.7bar of boost pressure.

main issues you wouldn't put the power down as we kept snapping driveshafts, even the fancy chomemoly versions,we tried everything and kept going. another issue was even with 150shot nitrous the turbo wouldn't make full boost to 6500rpm. and at 5500rpm the car made 78bhp, then jumped to over 650 in 1000rpm.

Because of the extreme pressures and piston velocities it would eat bearings and rings. We used to about 8 runs a weekend and after 2-3 weekends it was ready for a strip down where it would show excessive ring gap expansion, and bearings had excessive wear.

the block actually didn't fail but we were running a very low 7.0:1 CR to achieve this, we did do testing around 9.0:1 and made similar power through the revband but 0.5bar less boost only issue was it kept ripping the head off. Even had special L19 ARP stud system made and still kept causing lift, and then there was a block cracking issue.

1000bhp i can do but expect about a 500-1000mile service life, and 1000mile is being generous. remember the 3/4 million pound WRC rally cars, running 2.4bar boost but only 300bhp. they have a 700mile service life and then need total strip down and overhaul.

this is talking from experience, don't expect to build it and never take it apart again. think of this like a gun. you build it. have a good weekend playing with it, then take it apart reoil it and then put it away for another weekend. but in the case of the car you need to replace wear items.

Tim :)
Very interesting info you got there mr2, i'm taking it all in. It also give me insight to what i could expect with potential power with my 3SGTE starlet.


PS: Dont you think that the GT40 is way to big of a turbo for drag racing, considering how laggy it is, as you described.
 

Rev

Member +
Ultimately the turbo choice depends on the results you get from it , with drag racing you know straight away if it works from the times you get.

Also finding the expertise in this thread very interesting.... Wondering about the acceleration and deceleration forces happening over such a small rev range with huge power, would a turbo that accelerated more gradually do less damage? Also I read more damage, with I think it was with lighter rods and shorter stroke pistons because of the inherant net sideways vector being greater so more damage is done . By addressing these issues I guess a longer lasting high power build is possible but would be less suitable for drag racing ?
 
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i have a friend with a tte wrc block in his gt4 the engine has an immense spec. if it was to run one of the new gt35's so say maybe making around or up to 700bhp how long do you think it would last before excesssive wear and a rebuild would be required?

it depends how you use it really. you have to remember what ever you do to an engine, parts you put in it etc, your still working with an engine that was never meant to exceed 250bhp in toyota's original design. so oil distribution, bearing surface area etc etc can't be changed so anything over this isn't going to wear and last like a toyota out the factory engine. personally from doing these over the years I always say to my customers if they want a road going car which mean they want reliability keep it under 500bhp and 1.5bar boost pressure. I've done a number of these builds and most are used as daily drives and commuting and have been reliable. remember its not just about peak numbers its how it drives and at the peak of that your already starting to use some very high lift and long duration cams which makes daily drive very annoying. and at 500bhp on an mr2 it'll wheel spin through 4th gear and you spend most of the time fighting the car over actually being in control and getting the most from it. Because of this I don't really recommend more power for track cars either. drag is a different matter, when it comes to chasing numbers reliability goes out the window for that ultimate power goals, as long as it lasts that 1/4mile longevity can be scarified, but again alot of this is chassis tuning. the current world drag record of 9.6 which just pipped out last time and was done on a car with 350bhp less power, but the owners father is a pro drag racer and helped tune the suspension/chassis, where the engines I've built have been for customers so I'm limited on what we can do with the car etc. and seeing some of these cars have over 70k put into them to get those times I'd personally have financial stability and a mortgage paid off over some bragging rights that people forget.

as for the 3sgte into a starlet and going through the front wheels I think anything over 400bhp would be a nightmare to drive on the road anyway, and drag would have issues putting the power down because of the inability to run extremely wide tyres upfront.

Tim :)
 

pc18

North West England Area Rep.
cheers for that tim, your posts are a good read. im looking forward to what his gt4 makes. i just hope it stays in one piece for him this time. it was crazy fast at 2.5 bar on the old gt35.
 
sure it will be. highest i've ever had out of one of those was 720bhp at 2.4bar and it was starting to choke at top end. this was with a 1.06 exhaust housing.

your friend have any links to his build?

Tim :)
 

spuddy

Ulster Area Rep.
Some good info.

If I was building one it wouldn't be for the road.

Few things to think about for sure anyway, wont be to next year if I decide to finish with the Starlet and go RWD, will try and get 650hp outta the starlet first.
 
I'd definitely go RWD and personally I'd stick to about 600bhp unless your planning on breaking records on the strip.

my only concern for this is your asking ATS racing to build you an engine. there good engine builds thats not my concern but if your having to purchase the engine in it points your not mechanically experienced enough to constantly keep rebuilding it and exchanging parts to keep it running at the very high powers your after. Forgive me on this comment i don't mean to offend but most people if there ok at doing this would be building the engine themselves.

Another thing but ATS Racing are usa side. so forget any aftersales or advice once that cheque has been cashed. i know this because i've had to take on the up keep of a few of there engines, yes assembled correctly but because your 6000miles away not exactly the top there priority list and forget about it if something goes wrong.

Tim :)
 

spuddy

Ulster Area Rep.
Maintenance isn't an issue, I can work around an engine I just choose not to.

I have the same issue now with the starlet, I just leave that to ECC to handle for me, which is what I'd be doing with the ATS engine if I went for it.

That all said I'm moving closer to wanting a V8 or Supra build.
 

Ted

Member +
Maintenance isn't an issue, I can work around an engine I just choose not to.

I have the same issue now with the starlet, I just leave that to ECC to handle for me, which is what I'd be doing with the ATS engine if I went for it.

That all said I'm moving closer to wanting a V8 or Supra build.

supra please!
 
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