4efe or 4afe box + 4efte in a Corolla E11?

[Frankieflowers]

Power Assisted Steering.

The pump is driven by a belt from the engine and generates pressure in the steering rack making it much easier to turn the steering wheel.

The 4EFE pump sits very low. You may find it will get in the way of the turbo manifold. In fact the oil filter itself will need shifted too but that's another conversation..

You can see the two brackets for the pump on the left, right next to the oil filter:

View attachment 5436

The 4EFTE pump sits higher and the oil filter is moved to one side out of the way (old pic with no pump fitted but you can see the three bolt holes for the pump at top right):

View attachment 5437


In fact it's probably easier to explain that the oil filter needs moved to accommodate the turbo and the PAS pump needs moved to accommodate the oil filter.

Thanks for the explanation. I see the difference between the two filter and bracket locations. So I won’t have that problem because I am using a 4EFTE engine with a 4EFE gearbox. I will have to modify the steering pump bracket to get the 4efe sttering pump bolts in place. I’ll have to make a metal plate with two holes with a few bolts welded on one of the two holes. This is what I was told.

 

[Frankieflowers]

Sounds like a lot of messing around..

I don't remember having any trouble when installing the 4EFE in place of the 4EFTE but that's because the pipes were already in place.

Two choices, either get the 4EFE PAS pump out of the way of the turbo stuff by using custom brackets or use a 4EFTE PAS pump set up and work out the pipe work.

I'd hazard a guess that the E11 hydraulic pipes to the pump will be a different angle/shape so you may find it could need customised. Here's the connections I'm taking about:

View attachment 5435
The hard metal pipe is the feed and is under pressure, it comes from the steering rack. The larger rubber hose is just the return to the bottle. Those connections need to be at a certain angle to attach them.

You able to provide an image of how yours sits at the minute?

I will send you a picture by tonight.

Here’s my engine. I couldn’t take new pictures today because I’m painting and the car is wrapped.

 

[Jay]

You can see how low your powersteering pump sits, it will foul the oil filter on the 4efte.

You might be able to use the 4efte pump if the two 4efte versions of these pipes are swappable too.

 

[Frankieflowers]

What if I cannot swap the pipes? Seems that the Corolla steering pump is better for my car. Do you think there could be another solution to adopt the Corolla 4efe pump to the 4efte engine? Thanks

 

[Jay]

There's always a way to make it work:

- Fabricating brackets (like you have already mentioned) to get the pump to sit higher
- Could get a custom set of pipes made up to suit
- Use a remote electric power steering pump
- Remove the power assisted steering

If it were me I'd give the 4EFTE pipes a go first. That's what I've done on the EP91 conversions in the past. Hopefully the pipes are long enough to suit your engine bay as they would give a nice 'factory' look.

Thankfully this is one of the jobs you can do prior to the actual turbo fitment. It'll work fine on the 4EFE engine so you can have it in place before tackling the main event

 

[Frankieflowers]

There's always a way to make it work:

- Fabricating brackets (like you have already mentioned) to get the pump to sit higher
- Could get a custom set of pipes made up to suit
- Use a remote electric power steering pump
- Remove the power assisted steering

If it were me I'd give the 4EFTE pipes a go first. That's what I've done on the EP91 conversions in the past. Hopefully the pipes are long enough to suit your engine bay as they would give a nice 'factory' look.

Thankfully this is one of the jobs you can do prior to the actual turbo fitment. It'll work fine on the 4EFE engine so you can have it in place before tackling the main event

Agree. I will try using the 4efte pipes and adding the metal plate to connect the 4efe E11 pump to the 4efte bracket.

 

[Jay]

Agree. I will try using the 4efte pipes and adding the metal plate to connect the 4efte pump to the 4efte bracket.

That should work better.

 

[Frankieflowers]

That should work better.

Crazy how the prices for these engines from Japan went up. The complete engine without gearbox will cost me 1600 pounds plus shipment to Italy and VAT. €2400! And remember I could buy in August the four engine with a gearbox for €2600. Does anyone have a connection to get the engine at a cheaper price? because I’m top of that I would have to add €1000 fish for the extras and at least €500 labor. Basicallu €4000 for a swap.

The other option would be to turbo charge my 4efe but it would be a lot more labor and it would be more complicated because I would have to custom the manifold, the oil pipesand the brackets. At least €1200 to regenerate my 230k Km 4efe before working on it. Buy the turbo, if I find it, the intercooler and IC pipes to customize, the 215 mm clutch. Fuel pump and more...

 

[Jay]

I can remember picking them up local for £400 max but that was years ago. One breaker up the country had about 50 of them in a shipping container which was a sight to see. He sold them for £650 from memory.

Unfortunately you pay the money and take the chance these days, seen a few local guys get stung with bad second hand engines. Would be factoring in some reconditioning on any 4EFTE you manage to pick up unless the seller can sort it before shipping.

Still think I'd rather turbo your current engine than spend that sort of ££ on a 4EFTE.

Would you not fancy importing a Glanza or are Japanese imports too much hassle to get on the road in Italy?

 

[Frankieflowers]

I can remember picking them up local for £400 max but that was years ago. One breaker up the country had about 50 of them in a shipping container which was a sight to see. He sold them for £650 from memory.

Unfortunately you pay the money and take the chance these days, seen a few local guys get stung with bad second hand engines. Would be factoring in some reconditioning on any 4EFTE you manage to pick up unless the seller can sort it before shipping.

Still think I'd rather turbo your current engine than spend that sort of ££ on a 4EFTE.

Would you not fancy importing a Glanza or are Japanese imports too much hassle to get on the road in Italy?

I completely agree. Importing at Glanza is a hassle because import bureaucracy makes it too expensive.
I went through the list of pieces I would have to find from a 4EFTE Engine that are rare to find plus all the new bits I would have to put together and the price seemed to be even higher than the swap. Plus I would have to rettificate (€1200) my 4efe to get 0.5 bar boost. I’ve heard to work on the fuel cut with a certain map instead of using a piggyback. I don’t know I’m not an expert to figure out what is really going to work so maybe you can help me figure it out. I need to custom make a manifold, a downpipe, adapter turbo bracket for my engine plus all the pipes, adapt the steering pump and get the oil and cooling liquid in and oit the turbo. I need an IC with all the pipes customized. Adapt the CAT and exhaust. Get the lambda CAT, air box sensors and inlet customized.

 

[Jay]

Bear in mind that you are going to have to do all that customization anyway, doesn't matter if you use 4EFE or 4EFTE as the base.

Fitting the 4EFTE isn't plug and play, in fact it brings a spot of bother to the table as your ECU is not compatible with the ignition system it uses and retrofitting the DIS components is not straightforward. Without the crank sensor I doubt it will operate properly. You can always test the theory by unplugging the sensor on your current set up to see what happens.

As I said in the other thread, I can't help think that boosting your 4EFE is the easier option here. Half a bar of boost on a TD04 is a decent upgrade and if you wish to run bigger power you can overhaul the engine and use 4EFTE internals to run higher boost. Means you can figure out the engine management side of things without that huge initial outlay in stage one of the project then start pushing bigger power in stage two.

Get your current engine health-checked, so long as it's well serviced, compression test comes back okay and doesn't have any obvious issues it should be a good base to build on. Plus it's already in place and running.

A used 4EFTE still has risks, I've bought a few crackers in my time!

 

[Frankieflowers]

This is what I’m thinking. I completely agree. In this situation where there is less money for everybody maybe it is better to start from my engine and see if it could hold half bar boost. This way I could buy the turbo, the intercooler, the pipes and custom downpipe to get a shop customize the parts on my engine. I will buy the piggyback and all should be around €1500. A friend of mine is willing to do the job for €500 labor. I want to ask you a final list of to do things. Also if I could get a map to start with in order to get to the mapping shop. It is miles away from my home.

 

[RoyalDutchie]

To my knowledge many piggybacks and standalone ecus have a problem with reading the stock 4efe trigger wheel. Something to keep in mind for sure.

 

[Frankieflowers]

To my knowledge many piggybacks and standalone ecus have a problem with reading the stock 4efe trigger wheel. Something to keep in mind for sure.

I see. I went to check out forums end it seems that we need to rewire the harness?

 

[SKINY]

To my knowledge many piggybacks and standalone ecus have a problem with reading the stock 4efe trigger wheel. Something to keep in mind for sure.

Was this not just the me221 ECU bud ? The e-manage/other piggyback ECUs to my knowledge is just a matter off splicing into the loom at the ECU? Then getting it mapped, you can buy ready made looms for plug n play but they are quite expensive for all they are

 

[Frankieflowers]

Was this not just the me221 ECU bud ? The e-manage/other piggyback ECUs to my knowledge is just a matter off splicing into the loom at the ECU? Then getting it mapped, you can buy ready made looms for plug n play but they are quite expensive for all they are

Which piggyback do you suggest? Are the needed connectors in the box and it is a matter of wiring or should I buy a kit with the proper connectors and wires? I don’t have a clue.

 

[RoyalDutchie]

Was this not just the me221 ECU bud ? The e-manage/other piggyback ECUs to my knowledge is just a matter off splicing into the loom at the ECU? Then getting it mapped, you can buy ready made looms for plug n play but they are quite expensive for all they are

The megasquirt also has the same problems. It is something with the teeth configuration which isn't great. Other systems I do not know for sure since I haven't seen many turbo 4efe with the corolla wasted spark configuration. I do have plans to run them myself next year.

 

[SKINY]

Which piggyback do you suggest? Are the needed connectors in the box and it is a matter of wiring or should I buy a kit with the proper connectors and wires? I don’t have a clue.

Your mapper would be better to ask, see what he favours and recommends for your build

 

[Frankieflowers]

Found this great guy from Greece who owns a Turborolla (4efte swap) he built in 2015.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/wgxyvdq/

Here’s what he told me.

“The 4efte has the same mounts as the 4efe so it doesn’t need anything else. You can keep your gearbox but it's wise to get the turbo version from the Starlet.

Also you'll need the ECU and the original wiring. The tricky part here is to match your wiring with the original.

*Bonus tip. Swap the 4efe oil pan with the 4efte so you have better clearance for the exhaust.

Some upgrades that might help you are to get rid of the stock intercooler and put a front mount one and a catback exhaust. With these minor upgrades the engine will produce roughly 150bhp.

I kept the Corolla steering pump but I used the starlet bracket. I don't know if the stock downpipe hits the front mount, it might, I right away installed a custom downpipe and full exhaust that a friend of mine helped me fabricate. .

I kept the Corolla original oil pipes.

You must get the steering pump brackets from the Starlet that will fit the Corolla A/C pump. Otherwise the turbocharger will hit the pump with the original Corolla brackets”.

 

[Frankieflowers]

Your mapper would be better to ask, see what he favours and recommends for your build

I’m just a simple guy. ;-)