4EFE vs 4EFTE engine block differences for forged engine build.
- Thread starter Frankieflowers
- Start date
Jay
Admin
Drop it to an engineers and get it cleaned, inspected and checked for flatness. I usually supply a set of valve stem oil seals and let them remove and lap in the valves. That way they stand a far better chance of spotting issues than I would.
You could get a bit of porting and a three-angle grind done on the valve seats if you wanted but the gains are debatable. Depends on price, wouldn't see it as a necessity.
New, genuine TOYOTA seals and gaskets for the build up where possible.
Bonus treat: If you are changing in a set of valve springs you will need to learn how to reshim the lifters but that's a headache for when the cams are going back in. The engineer could possibly offer to sort that side of things but depends on them. Read up on it beforehand so as you are at least prepared for it. Valve clearances is the term you can search for.
You could get a bit of porting and a three-angle grind done on the valve seats if you wanted but the gains are debatable. Depends on price, wouldn't see it as a necessity.
New, genuine TOYOTA seals and gaskets for the build up where possible.
Bonus treat: If you are changing in a set of valve springs you will need to learn how to reshim the lifters but that's a headache for when the cams are going back in. The engineer could possibly offer to sort that side of things but depends on them. Read up on it beforehand so as you are at least prepared for it. Valve clearances is the term you can search for.
Djaniero
Member +
Great help as always Jay. Thankyou.
I have a genuine Toyota engine rebuilt gasket kit so already have that covered.
I’ve always wondered whether it would be worth going some porting while the head is off. I will weigh up some prices at the machine shop.
I had a bit of an issue the last time the head was rebuilt…. The car wouldnt start. If I remember correctly my builder said it was something to do with the valve clearances being slight off ?
The head was rebuilt and skimmed about 10k miles ago. But with doing the forged 5e build I thought I would get it inspected and put a fresh set of valve springs in there …. I was going to go for some updated ones but read they can wear the head out faster hence why I thought a fresh oem set would be better .
I have a genuine Toyota engine rebuilt gasket kit so already have that covered.
I’ve always wondered whether it would be worth going some porting while the head is off. I will weigh up some prices at the machine shop.
I had a bit of an issue the last time the head was rebuilt…. The car wouldnt start. If I remember correctly my builder said it was something to do with the valve clearances being slight off ?
The head was rebuilt and skimmed about 10k miles ago. But with doing the forged 5e build I thought I would get it inspected and put a fresh set of valve springs in there …. I was going to go for some updated ones but read they can wear the head out faster hence why I thought a fresh oem set would be better .
Jay
Admin
From my understanding, the standard shims are the part that will wear, not the actual head. If you switch to solid lifters this can become a potential issue as the wear switches to the next weakest point. Add the price of upgrades and many can go off the idea altogether.
There's a set interval you are meant to check the valve clearances as wear is seen as a normal expectation on a stock 4E.
If you are changing the springs the clearances will probably change, doesn't matter if you are fitting new or used. There is a specified spring length (which I don't have the manual for atm). It's good practice to check and adjust the valve clearances after the head has been off anyway as anything that affects the position or movement of the valve can affect them.
Hope that makes sense.
So, if you aren't chasing big power, stock is more than fine. Buying new is ideal but you'll still need them checked/set as part of the mission.
There's a set interval you are meant to check the valve clearances as wear is seen as a normal expectation on a stock 4E.
If you are changing the springs the clearances will probably change, doesn't matter if you are fitting new or used. There is a specified spring length (which I don't have the manual for atm). It's good practice to check and adjust the valve clearances after the head has been off anyway as anything that affects the position or movement of the valve can affect them.
Hope that makes sense.
So, if you aren't chasing big power, stock is more than fine. Buying new is ideal but you'll still need them checked/set as part of the mission.
Frankieflowers
Member +
I totally agree with you. I already spent the money so I will use them just in case in the future I want to put a truck, Turbo and rev 9000 RPM .
The 4efe rev limiter as a natural aspirated engine is at 7k I guess. Maybe 6500 rpm. I honestly never pushed that engine to the limiter but I do remember I would rev 6200.
Jay
Admin
You won't know what sizes you need until the build up. Best to work it out at that point as they can get pricey. Near sure Toyota can only order in a set quantity too but that could be BS lol.
I've had more than one occasion where all 16 clearances stayed in spec after rebuild.
gorganl2000
Lifer
we've had a similar experience after disassembling, cleaning up, reseating the valves and installing new valve stem seals on (1) 4efte head and (2) 5efhe heads.
what we did is to mark each valve, spring and shim, and put them back in their exact location when reassembling.
just to be clear, no other head work was done to these heads (porting, polishing, 3 angle work, etc.)...its just a basic rebuild
Djaniero
Member +
Thanks. I’ll purchase the springs and valve stem oil seals in the first instance and see how so get on.
@gorganl2000 @Jay what are your thoughts on the engine porting video above? Do you think it’s worthwhile or just rebuilt and be done with it for 300-320bhp?
@gorganl2000 @Jay what are your thoughts on the engine porting video above? Do you think it’s worthwhile or just rebuilt and be done with it for 300-320bhp?
Frankieflowers
Member +
Hello. Back here after a while. I was going through my list before proceeding.
My concerns are the crank pulley for the knock sensor on the FE engine. I will see the actual differences between the engines when I will pull. The FTE off the Corolla.
The other concern is the oil pick up. The one on the FE Engine is rectangular. Apparently, the one on the turbo engine is circular. I don’t know if there is any difference, but I need to know if.
As you mentioned, I can tap the oil sump I bought the nipple already.
I’m trying to figure out how to do it the rocker cover conversion to AN10 oil breathers without having to get the rocker cover apart inside.
Frankieflowers
Member +
gorganl2000
Lifer
just a related thought...how does the baffling compare on the two different sumps?
daniel_g
Member +
The oil strainer / pickup has to match the sump. There are different heights aswell as shapes. They can both be used in a turbo application but its a matching pair.
If you are using the corolla oil pump / crank pulley and crank sensor. It only fits on the engines that are the same as the corolla. Which I think is oil seal on block. (But please double check)
To modify the rocker cover, the splash plate had to be drilled out, the rivets, then m6 bolts fitted and welded in place. I had someone do this.
Jay
Admin
There's two different pick ups depending on the sump you have.
The early 4E used a wide sump.
Later models have a redesigned narrow sump to reduce chances of oil starvation, near sure it's a touch deeper but would need to physically check that.
One thing I'd say for certain is you must use the pick up that matches the sump otherwise it can cause issues.
The early 4E used a wide sump.
Later models have a redesigned narrow sump to reduce chances of oil starvation, near sure it's a touch deeper but would need to physically check that.
One thing I'd say for certain is you must use the pick up that matches the sump otherwise it can cause issues.
Frankieflowers
Member +
@gorganl2000 @daniel_g @Jay
thank you, gentlemen for reaching out.
I do understand now that the oil strainer has to go with its own oil sump. I will send a picture as soon as I go back to my garage.
Concerning the oil pump, I am worried now because I bought a OEM 4efte oil pump because I didn’t know that the oil pump on the aspirated engine was different. I will take a few pictures of the oil pump. I got off the 4EFE block and compare it with the new oil pump I have in the box.
thank you, gentlemen for reaching out.
I do understand now that the oil strainer has to go with its own oil sump. I will send a picture as soon as I go back to my garage.
Concerning the oil pump, I am worried now because I bought a OEM 4efte oil pump because I didn’t know that the oil pump on the aspirated engine was different. I will take a few pictures of the oil pump. I got off the 4EFE block and compare it with the new oil pump I have in the box.