4efte 20 psi+ of boost. what do i need?

Jimbo_driver

Fresh Recruit
Hi, i'm currently running a EP91 4efte in a 99 tercel and I want to upgrade boost to 20 psi and even more if possible. I know i will have to change the fuel pump and the turbo for a bigger one. Does someone know if i need something else? Are the internals of the engine strong enough to handle that level of boost? Cuz I heard the ep91 internals and head gaskets were less strong than previous generation. What pieces would i need to replace for better? And if somebody can tell me how much hp and torque it would be at 20, I would like to have that to.

Thanks!
 
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GT-TD04

Supermoderator
Hi, i'm currently running a EP91 4efte in a 99 tercel and I want to upgrade boost to 20 psi and even more if possible. I know i will have to change the fuel pump and the turbo for a bigger one. Does someone know if i need something else? Are the internals of the engine strong enough to handle that level of boost? Cuz I heard the ep91 internals and head gaskets were less strong than previous generation. What pieces would i need to replace for better? And if somebody can tell me how much hp and torque it would be at 20, I would like to have that to.

Thanks!

Why 20 psi? (which i think is 1.25bar?)
Setting a maximum boost is a bad target to start out from,why not try WHP?

Have a look through the members garage and look for CT9 for original turbos (which at 16psi cant be just shy of 180whp-200fwhp) and TD04 which from 1 bar of boost to 1.6/7 bar of boost can make 200-260whp and 200-270fwhp

If you know the power you want to achieve then you can match the parts to get there.

And its highly advised once you go past .8bar (fuel cut) you get some engine/fuel management and over 1bar its advised to get forged internals which can cost a couple of thousand.
 

starlet666

Member +
i wouldnt go to far past 16psi on the stock internals....if u want 20 psi get at least some forged pistons and a decent ecu to run it ;) or else it will just go POP!!!

and truthfully as said above... aiming for a certain boost level isnt the way to go.. aim for horsepower.... a ct9 will b able to give u 20 psi but it wont make alot of power....

a td05 will also give u 20 psi but it will make upwards of 300hp atw so it depends how drivable u want the car and what u wanna do with it ;)
 

Fatman

Member +
Hi, i'm currently running a EP91 4efte in a 99 tercel and I want to upgrade boost to 20 psi and even more if possible. I know i will have to change the fuel pump and the turbo for a bigger one. Does someone know if i need something else? Are the internals of the engine strong enough to handle that level of boost? Cuz I heard the ep91 internals and head gaskets were less strong than previous generation. What pieces would i need to replace for better? And if somebody can tell me how much hp and torque it would be at 20, I would like to have that to.

You need to decide what you want to use the car for and when you want the power to be delivered. A CT9 is severely limited in total flow (HP potential) but can deliver that power from 2000rpm with a very early spool up, however due to the restrictive nature of the turbo it will run out of puff up high in the rev range, 5500+rpm. On the other side of the coin a much larger turbo such as a td05 will deliver much more power potentially, however it won't really happen till 4000+rpm and will continue on to rev limit.

Power figures don't tell the full story, you can have a VERY powerful car with a peaky power band that will get thrashed in a drag race by something with very little power but with it delivered across a broad range of engine speeds.

Case and point is finx, running a standard EP91 CT9 turbo (same one you're running presumably) on virtually standard boost (9psi) running a 13.2 1/4 mile compared to many other cars on here and other forums with some huge power figures that run similar or worse times. His car doesn't have huge power (no more than 150whp or 170bhp) but can deliver that power across a very broad range, ideal for a street driven car.

For a daily driver I would suggest you to decide an approximate power figure and then select the smallest turbo that will achieve that power figure while retaining the best possible turbo spool and response. 20 psi on a ct9 will be VERY different to 20 psi on a Garrett GT3076R, boost pressure is a very poor measure of potential performance.
 

GaryGT

Member +
You need to decide what you want to use the car for and when you want the power to be delivered. A CT9 is severely limited in total flow (HP potential) but can deliver that power from 2000rpm with a very early spool up, however due to the restrictive nature of the turbo it will run out of puff up high in the rev range, 5500+rpm. On the other side of the coin a much larger turbo such as a td05 will deliver much more power potentially, however it won't really happen till 4000+rpm and will continue on to rev limit.

Power figures don't tell the full story, you can have a VERY powerful car with a peaky power band that will get thrashed in a drag race by something with very little power but with it delivered across a broad range of engine speeds.

Case and point is finx, running a standard EP91 CT9 turbo (same one you're running presumably) on virtually standard boost (9psi) running a 13.2 1/4 mile compared to many other cars on here and other forums with some huge power figures that run similar or worse times. His car doesn't have huge power (no more than 150whp or 170bhp) but can deliver that power across a very broad range, ideal for a street driven car.

For a daily driver I would suggest you to decide an approximate power figure and then select the smallest turbo that will achieve that power figure while retaining the best possible turbo spool and response. 20 psi on a ct9 will be VERY different to 20 psi on a Garrett GT3076R, boost pressure is a very poor measure of potential performance.



some good points der ;)
 

Chris@CCM

Member +
1.2 bar is not a big deal for a Gt engine I've ran 1.4 bar for a long time with no probs as long as the tune is ok
 

madwizard

Fresh Recruit
my case,
5efte (stock internals) + TD04L (227WHP) @ 1.3bar, 2 runs down the strip....and no3 piston was gone...
piston are from 5efhe (shaved for lower comp)..
heard sumwhere that safest boost on stock internals are around 1.0-1.2bar..
 

GaryGT

Member +
my case,
5efte (stock internals) + TD04L (227WHP) @ 1.3bar, 2 runs down the strip....and no3 piston was gone...
piston are from 5efhe (shaved for lower comp)..
heard sumwhere that safest boost on stock internals are around 1.0-1.2bar..

take a look at the previous post ;)
what engine management were u using?? if any???
 

spuddy

Ulster Area Rep.
I've also ran 1.4bar on a TD04 for half a year including at least 40 runs up the strip.

Not a hiccup, engines now running in someone elses car.

If it's tuned right she'll be grand, within reason obviously insaine boost levels aren't going to be good. The problem with a stock engine and high boost is, if anything goes wrong, its going to blow.

For instance on my forged build, its only tuned to 1.5bar, one of the drag days I was out the car kept exploding the hose running between the turbo and external gate. The car saw 2.2 bar a few times that day. Another day at the dyno the Map sensor hose blew off causing AFRs up above 20 while on boost. A stock engine wouldn't have been able to survive that.
 

Fatman

Member +
Note that virtually all of my advice was based around building an engine for a primarily driven street car, if you're building a car to go fast on the 1/4 mile or even circuit racing then you can throw just about everything I said out the window :p

Finx's car is bloody quick for a CT9 but would still go faster with a bigger turbo on the 1/4 but probably be less fun to drive on the street (full boost at 1500rpm is fun)

Standard internals are good for a lot of power as long as it's tuned correctly, plenty of 250whp+ engines running locally on stock internals, some that have completed 3+ full seasons of circuit work without issue.
 

madwizard

Fresh Recruit
take a look at the previous post ;)
what engine management were u using?? if any???

yup, forget to mention
emb
profec b spec 2
jam fcd (some people say need to use, some dont)
sard fuel regulator
bosch external fuel pump

prev setup, lasted 4 years++
4e-fte (stock) TD04L @ 1.2 bar = 197WHP
same managemnet as above
one day, driving on hiway around 80kmh, suddenly the third conrod snapped...then change to 5e as above, 5e was from august 2009 until dec 2009..
currently fully forged on the way:rockon:
 
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Chris@CCM

Member +
yup, forget to mention
emb
profec b spec 2
jam fcd (some people say need to use, some dont)
sard fuel regulator
bosch external fuel pump

prev setup, lasted 4 years++
4e-fte (stock) TD04L @ 1.2 bar = 197WHP
same managemnet as above
one day, driving on hiway around 80kmh, suddenly the third conrod snapped...then change to 5e as above, 5e was from august 2009 until dec 2009..
currently fully forged on the way:rockon:
theres defo no need for a fcd with emb dude ive no idea y you would use one with it tbh
 

madwizard

Fresh Recruit
theres defo no need for a fcd with emb dude ive no idea y you would use one with it tbh


thanks dude..
i went to a wide band tuner here, he mentioned to me that certain ep82 ecu, he cannot remove the boost cut certain he can..i have no idea at all bout this..since you mentioned it..the fcd will be on sale later today:haha:

so you can confirm with me, theres no need for the fcd if am using the emanage blue....

thanks a lot
 

Chris@CCM

Member +
thanks dude..
i went to a wide band tuner here, he mentioned to me that certain ep82 ecu, he cannot remove the boost cut certain he can..i have no idea at all bout this..since you mentioned it..the fcd will be on sale later today:haha:

so you can confirm with me, theres no need for the fcd if am using the emanage blue....

thanks a lot
nope not at all and if ur not using a greddy map sensor and the fcc is wired up be for the emb it would be a bit ropy as the emb wont see any more boost . what injectors u using ?
 

madwizard

Fresh Recruit
nope not at all and if ur not using a greddy map sensor and the fcc is wired up be for the emb it would be a bit ropy as the emb wont see any more boost . what injectors u using ?



the fcc is wired up to sumthing near the intake manifold (excuse my technical terms for the parts)and am not using the greddy map sensor..
currently on 4agze injectors...
 

Chris@CCM

Member +
the fcc is wired up to sumthing near the intake manifold (excuse my technical terms for the parts)and am not using the greddy map sensor..
currently on 4agze injectors...
thats 110% wong way of doing things u ecu and emb will only be seeing about 10psi ive no idea y u would do it like that theres no way u could get a good tune like that and if it over boosted at all it would be very lean
 

madwizard

Fresh Recruit
thats 110% wong way of doing things u ecu and emb will only be seeing about 10psi ive no idea y u would do it like that theres no way u could get a good tune like that and if it over boosted at all it would be very lean

ok, now should i just take off the fcd and only use the emb + ecu as my management ?
but the last time i went on a dyno...the tuner had to cut a bit of fuel at high rpms(6.5krpm and above) as he mentioned it was running rich...i kno nothing bout tuning dude..
i did tell him the car is to run for drag...
 

Chris@CCM

Member +
yeah take it out then go get it retuned by some one that knows how to use emb u want the clamp the map sensor v at 4.1vs
 

madwizard

Fresh Recruit
yeah take it out then go get it retuned by some one that knows how to use emb u want the clamp the map sensor v at 4.1vs

all right,
but what does this mean : u want the clamp the map sensor v at 4.1vs
is it the setting in the emb? any pictorial i can refer to..
 
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