Camlifter seems to have damage along the edges

RoyalDutchie

Member +
A few days ago when I was busy installing my catchcan I broke the pcv valve. Took the head of and after some hours I finally removed the few pieces left from the pcv en installed all new gaskets and a pcv. But when I looked at my cams they seem like they have a few missing pieces. The touching bits do not have that much damage or scouring just the edges look to be damaged.




 
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JamesG_GlanzaV

Member +
Looks quite strange that bud. How many km's has the engine covered? dont see why they would wear on the edges like that though.
 
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Jay

Admin
I've seen this sort of issue before, various engine years and different mileages.

Always put it down to maintenance in that the majority of 4EFTE don't have a known service history in Japan (the lucky few do actually arrive with service books though) coupled with the fact I don't know anyone that regularly checks their valve clearances as part of the service schedule.

If it's a slight chip on the downside of the lobe it wouldn't bother me on my own engines (obviously other peoples are a different matter) but that first pic you posted is concerning. That's right on the load bearing tip where a proper failure could happen. There's a bit of carbon build up in the cylinder head too by the looks of it which, although would be appropriate for the age, could also point to a gap in the servicing.

Make sure and check the clearances before taking the cams out. At least if the tolerances are out of spec it would help explain it. If lack of lubrication is a factor you should see evidence on the cam journals too so worth a gander.

Edit: It would be worth posting a few pics to show what you find on the cams once they are out. Just for further analysis.
 

RoyalDutchie

Member +
Wouldn't be surprised by the service gap. This car is owned by many and serviced by few sadly. I'm still unsure if they actually chipped or have bad casting marks. Wil probably be using these til they fail, bad practice for sure but oh well I do not have the money to justify billet ones:confused:. To be fair even though I just started with gathering knowledge of cars. I would expect some bad scouring before the edges chip. Cast iron needs some heavy loading before it chips to my knowledge which wil result in marks near the center.

edit:

If it cracked from the center it should have some hair line cracks from the contact point to the edges of the chip, which does not seem to be the case. Either way it would be strange if Toyota would approve these cams.
 
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JamesG_GlanzaV

Member +
At least the exhaust manifold rusted to the same degree ;). Spark plug gaskets also seem to be sealing worse than others(just teasing don't take it serious:p),
haha yes mate. Hopefully getting a replacement manifold soon. Worried about the restriction in the stock one, I also swapped out my spark plug seals and rocker cover gasket recently:p.

1598052440373.png
 

RoyalDutchie

Member +
Actually changed mine today since I broke my pcv:(. Had the same deposits they do clean up nicely if you take the time. Since the deposits are nearly the same, these "chipped"edges are getting stranger by the minute.
WhatsApp Image 2020-08-21 at 17.29.55.jpeg
 

Jay

Admin
Can't really rule out a manufacturing issue, for all we know those chips could be in there from day one although going on what I've seen I'd lean more to them developing over time. Totally open to finding that bit out.

If it's any consolation they were made over 20 years ago and they are still spinning lol. Can't be bad to that!

Would do no harm to check the tolerances and inspect the journals at this stage. You don't even need to take the cams out for that and it might give you some answers/more worries.

On a positive note I've seen a lot worse come out of perfectly running engines so you might get another two decades out of them :)
 

Jay

Admin
Just realising all this talk of clearances and no actual handy info - hopefully this will save you looking it up:

1598053277977.png
1598053277977.png

Just checking them will only require a set of feeler gauges and a lot of mental arithmetic.
 

RoyalDutchie

Member +
Looks good mate, how hard was it to remove the broken pieces of pcv valve? did you not have to remove the baffle plate?
It was a massive pain to remove the broken pcv and the grommet that turned into hard plastic. Didn't have to remove the plate, but it would have decreased the time I spend by about an hour. Took me a massive amount of time to remove a single piece of plastic that was stuck between the plate and cover.
 

JamesG_GlanzaV

Member +
It was a massive pain to remove the broken pcv and the grommet that turned into hard plastic. Didn't have to remove the plate, but it would have decreased the time I spend by about an hour. Took me a massive amount of time to remove a single piece of plastic that was stuck between the plate and cover.
Yeah I thought that might be the case, didn't really want to touch mine for that reason lol. I might end up looking at a breather set up with a catch can for mine in the future.
 

RoyalDutchie

Member +
Yeah I thought that might be the case, didn't really want to touch mine for that reason lol. I might look at a breather set up with a catch can for mine in the future.
You may have a easier life removing it, mine came with a pcv valve from a standard na starlet. Broke it when I tried to remove the pipe connecting the pcv to the manifold which was more or less solid since some of the previous owners though it was smart to use a hose made out of pvc(which will become solid after a while if it is in contact with hot oil). Nylon hoses would probably be a way more reliable connection, at least that is what I will be installing soon will see what happens to those after a few years.
 

RoyalDutchie

Member +
Can't really rule out a manufacturing issue, for all we know those chips could be in there from day one although going on what I've seen I'd lean more to them developing over time. Totally open to finding that bit out.

If it's any consolation they were made over 20 years ago and they are still spinning lol. Can't be bad to that!

Would do no harm to check the tolerances and inspect the journals at this stage. You don't even need to take the cams out for that and it might give you some answers/more worries.

On a positive note I've seen a lot worse come out of perfectly running engines so you might get another two decades out of them :)
Just hope they are a factory option ;). Maybe during machining some bits chipped off and Toyota be like that will do just fine. About 3-4 lifters have chips the others are fine.

Will check the tolerances and journals next time when I take it off for paint.

Thx again.

Just realising all this talk of clearances and no actual handy info - hopefully this will save you looking it up:

View attachment 4890
View attachment 4890

Just checking them will only require a set of feeler gauges and a lot of mental arithmetic.
Do have set of feeler gauges, but still need to get a better torque wrench soon.
 

RoyalDutchie

Member +
After educating myself abit more how these cams are in contact with the valves it seems they are certainly not manufacturing errors. The only flaw in them could be due to them being cast they may have some weaker grains where after a while stress cracks can form which then chip the lobes.

Probably looking to replace them when upgrading the power, maybe even sooner if they keep deteriorating. Engine can use a rebuild for sure.
 
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Jay

Admin
From my limited knowledge the lobe surfaces are hardened during production (rest of the shaft isn't) and this can make the metal brittle. That might explain the odd look that the affected lobes have, it doesn't look like the wear you would expect from poor lubrication.
 

SKINY

Lifer
The grains in cast stuff is generally all over the place and forged is uniform.
Corsa cams are notorious for snapping due to poor casting process, from my limited knowledge off them the only bits that are hardened are the lobes and the bucket area
 

RoyalDutchie

Member +
The shims could be out of spec by the looks of it, to much tension on the lobes might have stressed them to much and chipped them a bit. Will soon order the tools to inspect and replace them if required. maybe start looking for a set of good ones if required.

The most interesting parts is that they are chipped on one side only. the lobes on the top cam all chipped on the left side while the one on the bottom is only chipped on the right side.
 
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