Final drive mix up
- Thread starter azerty
- Start date
azerty
Supermoderator
Hello,
So I went to see my gearbox today by myself.
First thing, I got wrong info about axle final gear size.
4.0 differential gear is 3mm larger than the 3.7 one, but the 4.0 axle is 3mm SMALLER than the 3.7 one. So the problem is not from there, it should fit. (which is a good news)
as my mec couldn't find out, I went to see an other one with much longer gearbox experience. and he found the prob in 5 minutes.
we had the gear box opened with differential in and axle (with gears on)
he realised the differential gear was sitting too high, so it is touching an other gear (1st gear I beleive)
So problem probably comes from when bearing and shim were changed.
- might not be well fited in
- or the shim might be too big.
we will check this tomorrow and will let you know
cheers
So I went to see my gearbox today by myself.
First thing, I got wrong info about axle final gear size.
4.0 differential gear is 3mm larger than the 3.7 one, but the 4.0 axle is 3mm SMALLER than the 3.7 one. So the problem is not from there, it should fit. (which is a good news)
as my mec couldn't find out, I went to see an other one with much longer gearbox experience. and he found the prob in 5 minutes.
we had the gear box opened with differential in and axle (with gears on)
he realised the differential gear was sitting too high, so it is touching an other gear (1st gear I beleive)
So problem probably comes from when bearing and shim were changed.
- might not be well fited in
- or the shim might be too big.
we will check this tomorrow and will let you know
cheers
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Texx
Super Moderator
Check this ^^
I've got a feeling the C56 shaft cover differs from the rest of the C series, an incorrect cover/shaft combination may change the installed height of the output shaft.
Texx
Super Moderator
A little bit of digging leads me to believe that your 4.05:1 final drive set is from either a C50 or C51 from a AE111 Levin BZG. I'm not sure what the exact difference is between the C50 and C51, may just be different gear or final drive ratios??
If this is correct then I can confirm that the output shaft cover, output shaft front bearing, plate washer for the front case diff bearing, both diff bearings and the diff itself are the same for both the Glanza V and the Levin BZG. This means that what you have should be a direct fit into the Glanza C56 gearbox. The shim washer for the diff bearing preload is found behind the bearing in the rear case, a shim that was too thick would move the ring gear further away from 1st gear, having a shim that was too thin would relieve some of the pressure causing the ring gear to bind against 1st gear. The difference between the thinnest and thickest available shim is only 0.9mm and you should have more clearance than that between the ring gear and 1st gear anyway.
I'm not sure if it's possible to get wrong or if it even makes any difference, but the ring gear is fitted to the diff the right way around?
If this is correct then I can confirm that the output shaft cover, output shaft front bearing, plate washer for the front case diff bearing, both diff bearings and the diff itself are the same for both the Glanza V and the Levin BZG. This means that what you have should be a direct fit into the Glanza C56 gearbox. The shim washer for the diff bearing preload is found behind the bearing in the rear case, a shim that was too thick would move the ring gear further away from 1st gear, having a shim that was too thin would relieve some of the pressure causing the ring gear to bind against 1st gear. The difference between the thinnest and thickest available shim is only 0.9mm and you should have more clearance than that between the ring gear and 1st gear anyway.
I'm not sure if it's possible to get wrong or if it even makes any difference, but the ring gear is fitted to the diff the right way around?
azerty
Supermoderator
this is exactly what I have been wondering, I'll post some pics I have done yesterday which make me think it might be upside down
would anyone have a c56 gearbox technical drawing ? so I could figure out if everything is well in place.
I beleive they have probably missed a shim between final gear axle (outputshaft) and casing bearing, teeth are actualy touching the bearing outside, which is a part of the bearing that doest turn...
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azerty
Supermoderator
I've just found some technical drawings on this page :
http://www.ae82.net/showthread.php?736-gearbox-database
http://www.ae82.net/showthread.php?736-gearbox-database
Texx
Super Moderator
There's no shim between the bearing and diff case. The shim sits between the outer bearing race and transmission case. If you look though the drive shaft oil seal on that side, you should be able to see if the shim is in place.
azerty
Supermoderator
^^ I meant on the output shaft final gear, but from the drawing it seems there is no shim over there.
on the diferential bearings, yes there is shim on both side if I remember well just after the conic hat of the bearing
here is a pic of my original dif next to my LSD with 4.0:1 final drive on.
something seems wrong there
on the diferential bearings, yes there is shim on both side if I remember well just after the conic hat of the bearing
here is a pic of my original dif next to my LSD with 4.0:1 final drive on.
something seems wrong there
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goldenvtr
Member +
regarding the photo of the diffs above, do you realize that the bearings on the bottom of each diff are different?
i noticed when reasembaling my gearbox that the diff bearings are side specific.
if your not sure what im refering too ill circle and explain if you give me a few mins as my description is pretty bad lol
i noticed when reasembaling my gearbox that the diff bearings are side specific.
if your not sure what im refering too ill circle and explain if you give me a few mins as my description is pretty bad lol
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azerty
Supermoderator
yes I noticed that. but I thought it was just a diferent brand design. As on my LSD, it was originary the oposit of the standard dif. and when buying with same code they are both the same design now. strange indeed. New bearing brand is Koyo now and comes with there dedicated hat covers (which goes in the case housing) new bearing looks the same, but covers have different size
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azerty
Supermoderator
Finaly changed for an other final drive set. and the box has close like a miracle.
I still don't know what was wrong previously though. I just know it was coming for outputshaft itself or maybe gears were not properly fited on it.
Bonus pic :
TRD LSD on the left with 69 teeth 4.05:1 final drive (which goes with 17 teeth output shaft)
standard glanza dif with 67 teeth 3.72:1 on top (which goes with 18 teeth output shaft)
standard dif with 69 teeth 4.32:1 on the right (which goes with 16 teeth output shaft)
I still don't know what was wrong previously though. I just know it was coming for outputshaft itself or maybe gears were not properly fited on it.
Bonus pic :
TRD LSD on the left with 69 teeth 4.05:1 final drive (which goes with 17 teeth output shaft)
standard glanza dif with 67 teeth 3.72:1 on top (which goes with 18 teeth output shaft)
standard dif with 69 teeth 4.32:1 on the right (which goes with 16 teeth output shaft)
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Phil
Super Moderator
Finaly changed for an other final drive set. and the box has close like a miracle.
I still don't know what was wrong previously though. I just know it was coming for outputshaft itself or maybe gears were not properly fited on it.
Bonus pic :
TRD LSD on the left with 69 teeth 4.05:1 final drive (which goes with 17 teeth output shaft)
standard glanza dif with 67 teeth 3.72:1 on top (which goes with 18 teeth output shaft)
standard dif with 69 teeth 4.32:1 on the right (which goes with 16 teeth output shaft)
standard dif with 69 teeth 4.32:1 on the right (which goes with 16 teeth output shaft)
where does this 4.32 final drive come from?
thanks
Phil
Jay
Admin
You might find something of use amongst all the numbers here:
http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums...r-Ratio-Comparison-List&highlight=gear+ratios
http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums...r-Ratio-Comparison-List&highlight=gear+ratios
Lots of places according to Jays post info. because it would be 4.3125 ( 69/16 ) drive axle ratio. Good catch Phil looks like a typo that has a missing 1 which makes it into a 4.3_2 .
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