HKS F-Con

[speedfreaq]

hi guys...

does anyone know if all the PFC Fcons are all the same inside,
i mean, can i just get one from another car and just install the starlet chip...

thanks

 

[Phil]

good question, one that would certainly be worth knowing the answer to, BUT i dont know the answer yet. i will though....ILL BE BACK... with some info.

Phil

 

[G6Turbo]

No u cant, they all got different roms in them , and they are all mapped different for the kind of car u use

And i also dont think u can change the chip in it....

 

[Phil]

the roms are car specific like e304 for the starlet, but you think the rest of the board is different g6turbo?

does that question make sense? lol

Phil

 

[G6Turbo]

hehe not a very understanding scentence lol but i know what u mean

Euhm as for the rest of the F-con i reckon it too be the same base board as the other F-cons, but there wil be differences for sure as they made them for 6 cilinder cars as wel.
So they wont be exacly the same i think

 

[speedfreaq]

i know there may be differences in the wiring...
but i am guessing that the base boards are all the same..
they just use different car specific ROMs

still try to make sure though

 

[Phil]

well jay has one for a rotory mazda lol and a 4age so i'll maybe get him to help with a wee compare and contrast against a 4e one, some photos maybe, then you guys could spot the difference lol

Phil

 

[speedfreaq]

that would be a big help

rep added guys :rockon:

 

[jabran200]

The old black PFC f-cons are car specific and are mapped via the GCC.

The later HKS f-con v's and is/s are not vehicle specific.

The old ones are really dated tbh, you could pickup a F-con s for around £150 which is much better than that and will probabbly be less than the PFC f-con once you have bought the GCC.

 

[Phil]

The old black PFC f-cons are car specific and are mapped via the GCC.

The later HKS f-con v's and is/s are not vehicle specific.

The old ones are really dated tbh, you could pickup a F-con s for around £150 which is much better than that and will probabbly be less than the PFC f-con once you have bought the GCC.

the question is,

these old pfc fcons, are their boards entirely vehicle specific, or are is there only that single chip/rom that is changed between each unit?

the pfc fcon has 9 slightly different maps so you dont necessarily need the gcc to get a basic tune, , you cant say that a old pfc and gcc isnt worth it!? armed with a wideband and a screwdriver you can change your setup or run more/less boost without needing to head to a dyno everytime you want a slight adjustment to you fuelling, but that wasnt the issue!


Phil

 

[jabran200]

Its a rom chip on the board thats different.

I didn't mean its not worth it but rather that thenew model which costs in a similar bracket can do the job much better.

I gues if you want some sort of map to drive but in some cases it will not be able to handle at is adjutsment is limited.

For low power sub 220 I would say it will do fine but more power can still be gotten with an ecu that has a greater scale of tuning.

Where would you get a starlet chip from? I'm HKS would have encrypted the chips but thats just an assumption.

You could try and stick the chip in a reader and see the code you get. Would be a better option and cheaper than the JAM/BLITZ/TOMS ecu if you could.

 

[Phil]

well for the money, an fcon can be realtively plug and play like a jam toms blitz ecu, considering that both should be checked on a wideband, benefit of the fcon is that if you check and it isnt just fuelling right you can adjust that! thats not possible with the preprogrammed ones.

so whether or not you can replicate the chip or read it wouldnt seem necessary as a 250/300pound(with gcc) seems a better option than a jam/blitz/toms/mines at 400/450

whether or not the fcon can work well above 220bhp is a great question, maybe i'll answer it someday do you have any experience with the pfc fcons? do they accept or work well with mechanical fuel adjusters above stock like injectors or fpr?

maybe sam,Nosydnew or dave B could throw some input in? i bought mine of wendyson, and he has had some big setups, i know sam run one with decent hp and i see dave is selling one maybe they would have more info on how a pfc fcon could be encouraged to support bigger hp than 1bar ct9 stuff!?

what is the new model btw? the fcon pro? as it needs specific software to map it? and that kind of moves away from the attraction of the pfc.

Phil

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

New FCON's are full stand alone, PFC F-CON is a piggy back fuel controller.

They are easy to set up, all you need is a EGT gauge to do it which you should always have anyway when modding any Starlet. I have full English instructions for installation and setup if needed, I gave these it Ian (Dub) and he uploaded to a FTP site I'm pretty sure.

Once you've set the base setting you can fine tune with the GCC on a dyno, you can also get the IPM (Injector Pulse Monitor) to see how your injectors are fairing meaning you can stay under 85% duty cycle. If running over 200hp you need bigger injectors, you can't increase the rail pressure as the HKS PFC F-CON is not meant to be used in conjunction with a aftermarket FPR, stock only as it confuses the unit.

The pre programmed ECU's in my opinion are too risky, yes you can sometimes get good results when using them in conjunction with a fuel controller or piggy back but if using one alone then it's massive gamble as 9/10 you don't know what they have been set for. The Japs run very odd maps sometimes, very rich and they use higher octane fuel. The conditions are very different out there and you never really know the full story behind it so my advice personally would be not to use one although everyone will be different and some do work out okay, just when spending £400.00 odd I like to know whats going on.

That's my take, by the way we got way over 200fly with a PFC F-CON using a K1 but that was with infinity boost way back in 2005, with an EGT gauge you can just back off and half throttle it without EGT gauges I would have probably blown ever Starlet engine I've had (Spec in the description)!:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4i8nnjQi4Eg

 

[Phil]

yeah tobs i have the injector pulse moniter and the gcc, so from what your saying it'll agree with bigger injectors but not increased fuel pressure?(i think you told me this before actually)

what egt setup do you use? and do you have anything i could buy? i already have the greddy gauge and sensor, but i dont have the wee "box" that goes inbetween!

Phil

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

imo EGT is the best gauge you can buy, better than AFR in the long run for safe guarding as exhaust temp relates to everything, at the end of the day heat kills engines.

I have a 60mm EGT Greddy here, buggered sensor but data link is with it. I was going to keep it though and put in my wagon. Which one do you have 60mm?

T

 

[Phil]

yup 60mm. i bought what i though i needed off rhdjapan costed a right fortune like 80quid for the sensor, but they dont have the datalink bit

if you had pm allowed id continue this on there, but if the datalink is for sale come into the chatroom.

Phil

 

[speedfreaq]

yes the PFC FCON is a bit outdated but i think its way better than other such as the apexi SAFC.

better in that, it doesn't modify the map sensor signal and try to fool the ECU which could cause the ECU to run crap.
the FCON only modifies the injector signal coming out of the ecu plus carries its own map sensor......
its easy to set up as well... as the newer FCONs can only be tuned by HKS dealers.

i just thought that if i cant get one for the 4efte then i would just buy one for another car and then buy the ROM for the 4efte (or the 3sgte as some people use those) then rewire the FCON to suit my EP82 harness

 

[jabran200]

you are limited to the adjustments you can make though with the GCC thats the only reason I am saying is that I wont go for higher power.

I haven't any experience with PFC but Have use the v-gold/silver. You should be able to raise the pressure (or bigger injectors to a certain limit) as the GCC doesn't use any feedback so you could just trim the excess fuel to a limit as I said the GCC has that limitation but would allow for some more power.

It is a much better system than the non reprogammable plug and play ecu's like blitz etc.

Not all the PFC f-cons used the 3 bar map, the starlet one may do though.