HRF V300 Inner shim kit install

[NosydneW]

The HRF inner shim kit.

The package contains:

uprated valve springs
retainers
and buckets.

Those buckets are solid on the top of them. So I cannot click the shim on them...That's why it's called an inner shim setup i guess.

The oem buckets are a few mm's higher than the HRF buckets.
The oem shims fits ON the oem buckets but they fit also IN the HRF buckets. However the HRF buckets are a bit shorter so I don't lnow if that matters.

Can someone explain to me how this HRF inner shim kit must be installed?
Do I have to fit the original shim IN the HRF buckets after measuring the camlobe distance? CAuse just like the oem buckets ...these HRF buckets have a little nipple just in the middle if you look inside them..and the shim will not sit on a flat surface inside the buckets.

I will be hard to tell if I am measuring right if the shim is moving inside the HRF buckets.


ENGINE BUILDERS your suggestions please !!

thanks

 

[GaryGT]

Hi mate the solid buckets are shimmed mate u dont put anything inside them that nipple is the valve contact point.
You will have to measure them with a calibrated Micrometer to make sure of the measurements of each bucket
What Cams are you using?? have you the Spec sheet on the cams????
You need to know all this mate before you can start installing ur shim buckets

 

[NosydneW]

I have two sets of brand new billet cams here to choose from.
I dont have specsheets for non of them.

One set a bought form daveburwash and the other I bought from Tighe Cams along with some Tighe valve springs.

The thing is I just want to use this innershim kit cause I will have to rev higher with this engine.

 

[sx_turbo]

the shims go under the buckets and sit on top of the valve spring.

basicly treat them the same as the oe buckets and shims but the shims go inside the buckets.

 

[NosydneW]

this is the problem..there are two opinions here...
shimless install and shim inside bucket install
I took the oem setup....springs retainer/shim on bucket and i measured them against hrf valve spring/ retainer hrf bucket(without shim).
hrf valve spring is longer than oem spring. retainers are same height. but hrf buckets are shorter than oem. when put on together the oem setup including shim looks to be the same height as hrf setup put together without shim.

I would think then ..maybe it could be right that the hrf inner shim kit must be used without shim? but that would make it a shimless bucket right?

 

[sx_turbo]

you need to build the head up first.

check for coil bind on the spring.

bolt cams down and measure valve clearances, and adjust accordingly.

the chances of the hrf kit having identical clearances to the oem stuff is pretty remote

 

[NosydneW]

Still not shure if I will have to use the shims under these buckets.
The nipple inside the HRF bucket doen's allow a shim to sit firmly agains a solid suface


Also the HRF springs are a bit longer that standard...what if iI just place the cam without shim on the retainer and it is withing torenances ? Does that mean no shim should be used on this inner shim kit?

These are all billet cams I have..does that mean that oem shims should fit? if so maybe the HRF kit height ( equal to oem setup) explains that no shim is needed on e standard cam...this may also be apllicable to a billet cam ?


here are some pics

 

[hkspower]

hi mate.. if you are going to run whit billet or std cams you can use the sold bukits with out the iner shim .

 

[NosydneW]

Ok..that's what I wanted to know.

One more thing

Just like I have two sets of billet cams .....I also have the Tighe valve springs and the HRF springs.


The Tighe spring:

- less coils
- a few mm shorter
- harder to compress


The HRF springs:

-more coils
-few mm longer
- less harder to compress


SHould I use the Tighe springs or just the HRF springs in combination with this inner shim kit?
I would use a complete HRF setup but If you guys think that the harder spring will withstand higher revs I could use them right ?

 

[sx_turbo]

you need to build the head up and check clearances.

after you have checked the clearances then you can decide whether or not you need to fit the shims.

when the HRF springs are on the valves because they are longer, they will be stiffer than when there not built on the valves.

the valve will only allow the spring to sit a certain length regardless of how tall the spring is.

 

[NosydneW]

You're right about that. Only thing is,... when compressed on the valve the longer spring will have less way to travel than the Tighe spring. The space beween each ring is bigger you know what I mean ? The Tighe cam is 264 in ex and 8.9mm lift.

 

[sx_turbo]

yeah i know what you mean.

imo the tighe spring is designed and built for the tighe cam so it would probably be beneficial to use the tighe springs.

 

[NosydneW]

yeah ...but if I opted to use the tighe Billet cams...then I could rather use the Tighe springs with the HRF Reatainers and HRF Buckets

And I I use the DAveburwash Billet cams I could choose to use the HRF springs retainers and buckets.

I don't know If I the Tighe Cams plus complete HRF combo it would work as wel as mixed option.

Where Are all those engine builders / knowers on here when I need more input ?

 

[hardcoreep]

The tall HRF springs will provide less bind and more contact with the cam, which is what you want for higher rpms. However, as said shim useage will depend on the clearances.

 

[NosydneW]

Do I have to torque the head to bottom before measuring the cam clearances or can the it be done with the head off ?

 

[Aga]

it can be done with the head on, but you gotta torque and install the cams properly...

it seems impossible to me that using a set of buckets, with whatever cam, even an HRF one, would result in proper tolerances...

these buckets look like the ones yaris have. they come in sizes like the shims.

 

[Shorty]

the HRF buckets ARE a shimless bucket the same as a yaris bucket, im having a head built up atm using yaris buckets and Cruise cams mate, the HRF bucket sits on the valave contact point (nipple inside the bucket) this its self is ground down when changing the clearence level, same princepal as reshimming, using the HRF buckets is better for a high revving engine as you cant "spit a shim" at high revs, the spring/cam combo is entirely your own choice, as both should work well saying that the Tighe cams and springs are obviously mached to work as a pair, but the HRF springs will be great with daves billit cams it realy is down to you but defo use the HRF buckets with whatever you choose. all the clearences can be measured on a bench with the head off, you will need feeler guages an a good vernier/micrometer.

hope this helps a little

 

[BallıGee]

the HRF buckets ARE a shimless bucket the same as a yaris bucket, im having a head built up atm using yaris buckets and Cruise cams mate, the HRF bucket sits on the valave contact point (nipple inside the bucket) this its self is ground down when changing the clearence level, same princepal as reshimming, using the HRF buckets is better for a high revving engine as you cant "spit a shim" at high revs, the spring/cam combo is entirely your own choice, as both should work well saying that the Tighe cams and springs are obviously mached to work as a pair, but the HRF springs will be great with daves billit cams it realy is down to you but defo use the HRF buckets with whatever you choose. all the clearences can be measured on a bench with the head off, you will need feeler guages an a good vernier/micrometer.


hope this helps a little

just becareful when measuring the bucket shims if they are used as you will find wear on the nipple(lip on the outer edge that wont give you a true reading) on the under side that sits on the vavle stem if the clearance is no good as in too tight you brush the tips of the vavle stems if its the other way round then you need to cut the vavle seat why dont you try and compare a yaris bucket and hrf you may find there the same ????

 

[NosydneW]

Good point there. I didn't know that the HRF buckets looks just like the Yaris buckets.
Maybe HRF just took yaris buckets with some uprated springs and retainers and sold them as " THE HRF INNER SHIM KIT"

I always tought that the different yaris bucket sizes differ in the top thickness but now shorty is explaining that the sizes are matched with the nipple inside the buckets that sits on the valve top.

So basically..it IS a shimless system that can be adjusted without a shim.

Does any body have a pic of the yaris retainer ? Cause the HRF retainer is definately different that the oem 4e/5e retainer.

 

[sx_turbo]

arent daves cams tighe cams???????


and if the hrf kit is called an inner shim kit, i'm pretty certain that the chances are shims will need to be used.

either way, you cant decide until you've fully assembled the head and checked out the clearances.