if your good with wires please help here...,

alotofpower

Fresh Recruit
sorry if im gonna annoy anyone but its all a puzzle and im no good at it. im doing an engine conversion from 4e-fe to 5e-fhe in a 95 m/t ep82, ive found ecu pin out diagrams for both and im just having problems putting them together, im using 4e-fe wiring loom and TRYING to wire in the 5e-fhe coilpack.

4e-fe m/t is as follows;

1
2 neutral starter switch
3 water temp. signal
4 pressure intake manifold
5 intake air temp.
6 ignition timing
7 ignition feedback from ignitor coil
8 distributor
9 distributor crank angle
10 oxygen sensor
11 crank signal (starter switch)
12 injector pulse 1&3
13 computer ground
14
15
16 sensor ground
17 throttle position sensor
18 throttle position sensor (pin 1)
19 throttle position sensor (signals ecu throttle position is at idle)
20
21
22
23 vacuum switching valve
24 computer ground
25 injector pulse 2&4
26


5e-fhe m/t is as follows;

1 vacuum switch valve
2 neutral starter switch
3 water temp signal
4 pressure intake manifold
5 intake air temp
6 ignition timing
7 ignition feedback from ignition
8 distributor
9 distributor crank angle
10 oxygen sensor
11 crank signal (starter switch)
12 injector pulse 1&3
13 computer ground
14 aux control valve or idle up system vacuum switch valve
15
16 sensor ground
17
18 throttle position sensor (pin1)
19 throttle position sensor (signals ecuthrottle position is at idol)
20 distributor
21 intergrated ignition assembly
22 sensor ground
23 knock sensor
24 computer ground
25 injector pulse 2&4
26 computer ground


now as far as i can see the only differences are;

pin 1,7,14,17,20,21,22,23,26

but what to do next is not easy to figure out on my own, can someone put the puzzle together for me like this;

4e-fe - 5e-fhe

1 - ?
7 - ?
14 - ?
17 - ?
20 - ?
21 - ?
22 - ?
23 - 1
26 - ?


i hope this isnt asking too much but my eyes are going funny from looking at wires and i dont want to blow the ecu or set the car on fire!!!!!

thanks in advance,
alan
 

Fatman

Member +
Few questions for you:

Did your 4e-fe come with an internal ignitor/coil in the dizzy? Does the 5e-fhe use an external coil/ignitor?

There are two varieties of ignition in use on various E series engines, you can use the 4e-fe dizzy if it uses an internal coil on the 5e, that would probably be easier to wire up.

Next question, does your 5e have a 3 or 4 pin throttle position sensor?

You're going to find the task of mixing and matching wires MUCH easier if you stick to the standard toyota pin designations, e.g NE, G-, G1 and G2 for the distributor wiring. These are pretty consistent across the various ECU's and looms.
 

alotofpower

Fresh Recruit
ok i'm not too sure about internal or external coils. the 5e has 5 leads from the distributor where as the 4e only had 4. i'm guessing when i say that the 4e is internal and the 5e is external coil. also the 5e has 4 wires and the 4e had 3 wires from throttle position sensor. hope this helps! i'm really starting to feel like i shouldn't of started this conversion
 

Fatman

Member +
You're quite right, the fifth lead is to go to the coil. Do you have the external coil? I'm guessing not...

You can use the internal coil dizzy with the 5e-fhe ECU, however I do need to get you to check what the guts of it look like. Irritatingly there are two varieties of timing gear inside the distributor, the engine will definitely not run very well if you've got the wrong lot from what it's expecting!

You need to pull off the leads, cap and rotor and have a look inside. You should hopefully see a 24 tooth wheel or possibly a 4 tooth wheel.

Once you're sure you have all the right bits and pieces I can tell you exactly what to wire where, it shouldn't be too difficult other than potentially having to run a couple of extra wires for the ACIS switching solenoid (which the 4efe never had)
 

speedfreaq

Member +
there will be a few differences between the 5efhe and the 4efe wiring as they use two different types of ignition setups.

the 5efhe will, as you noted carry an external coil. so the 5efhe loom will need extra wires for the external coil and ignitor.
one two pin plug for the coil and a 5 pin plug for the ignitor.

the 4efe distributor will have 2 plugs (one 2 pin and one 4 pin)
the 5efhe distributor will have one 4 pin plug

most everything else will be the same.....
the 5efhe is more similar in wiring to the 4efte as they both use the same type of ignition setup.
 

speedfreaq

Member +
your options will be to use the 4efe coil on the 5efhe and then use the 4efe loom and ecu.
with this you wont have any control over the ACIS system.

otherwise you will need the 5efhe loom and ecu to run the 5efhe distributor. with the external coil and ignitor setup.
 

speedfreaq

Member +
here are the diferences

the one mared 5efe should be the same as your 4efe


4efte5eftepinouttr6.jpg
 

alotofpower

Fresh Recruit
Ok before i started this conversion i had a running 1.3 Starlet and a running 1.5 cynos. I've all the bits from both cars and should be able to make it all work by mixing and matching wires. I'm just no good with wires i can get lost very easily. I have the external coil from the 5e. At the moment i have the 4e distributor, wiring and ecu with the 5e engine and it starts sometimes but is sounding like the timing is wrong. It splutters and backfires and kinda sounds like a boxer engine. I'll put pictures up of the 4e distributor and i'll put pictures of the 5e coil and ignitor. I'm not sure what you mean about 24 teeth behind the rotar. The pictures should show you what i have. Thanks for the replys. I'm stuck with no car at the moment so all the help is very much appreciated
 

alotofpower

Fresh Recruit
im not sure how to put up pictures but i think this is a link;

5efhe ignitor
DSC00017.jpg

5e external coil
DSC00016.jpg

4efe distributor
DSC00015.jpg


DSC00014.jpg


DSC00013.jpg


i hope this will help
 
Last edited:

speedfreaq

Member +
it may be best for you to just pull the loom from the cynos and fit it to the starlet with the 5efhe ecu.

maybe the 4e ecu is having a hard time running an engine 200cc larger
 

Fatman

Member +
That last photo was what I was wanting, you can see that there's a wheel with four teeth buried in the guts of it there, the 5e ECU is expecting a signal from a 24 tooth wheel - that's never going to run very well.

You'll definitely need to swap to the 5e dizzy and external ignitor/coil which will involve quite a bit more wiring. As speedfreaq says, you might be much better off swapping out the complete 5e loom unless there's a very good reason you can't.
 

alotofpower

Fresh Recruit
:confused:ok just to update where i am now......

under the bonnet ive replaced the 4efe wiring for the 5efhe wiring but none of the 4e wiring from behind the dash would just plug in so i replaced the lot while i was at it, now i have 5efhe wiring inside the car too,

alot of wires just plugged into where the 4e loom came out, but now i have a few extra block connectors, i knew id have a few extra because the starlet had manual windows and mirrors where as the cynos had electric, also the cynos had an electric heater.

the car started the first try and started to idol quite high so i tapped the accelerator peddle and it cut out and hasnt started since, i think that could have been a small bit of petrol in the system from when i removed the engine from the cynos, i have spark and the petrol pump is working perfectly so im blaming the wires again, can anyone help please
 

Fatman

Member +
Your problem sounds fuel related, you say you've checked the fuel pump is turning on?

All lines are correct? You haven't managed to hook up feed to return or anything? Ensure that your throttle position switch is functioning correctly as if it's registering full throttle the ECU will go into flood clear mode and cut all fuel on cranking. Assuming that's all happy, try turning it over for some time with the throttle depressed, turn off the car entirely, turn back on and attempt to start normally. Get a friend to turn the key while you feel or listen for the fuel injectors ticking while cranking. If no success, pull one of the spark plugs and ensure it's not wet. Next try starting the engine with a can of CRC engine start or similar, should be able to find it at any autoparts store. If it fires and runs as it should with no throttle opening, you've checked all of the above and the injectors aren't firing then it's time for wiring diagnosis.

You will need a multimeter checking for resistance between the injector plugs and the relevant injector driver pins on the ECU. Pull the top plate off the ecu to expose the internals and the pins themselves, they're all labeled internally.

Report back with how you get on :)
 

alotofpower

Fresh Recruit
when i turn the key to the ON position the fuel pump kicks in for about 3 seconds which would be normal in most cars, the car tries to starrt so it could be fuel related, i will try everything you just listed in the morning and in that order,
thanks again, i will report back in about 12 -15 hours
 

weeJohn

Lifer
I would say your problem is now with the transponder for the immobiliser, your key may now not match it.

You only need the engine bay part of the loom, try to get it working with the interior loom of your motor.

Big plug runs all the engine stuff, there is a few wiring link ups needed for relays and switches from the interior loom to the fuse box in the engine bay.

This is nothing we can tell you what to do, you need to get into it and do it yourself mate, sorry.
 

Fatman

Member +
To the best of my knowledge nothing with a 4e or 5e-fhe, at least the japanese stuff ever had a transponder based key system.

With a multimeter, check for 12v on the injector plugs, use the top of one of the studs on the suspension top hats for a ground. If there's no voltage (with the key in the run position) then go through and check all the fuses related to the EFI system.
 
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