The great 5E v 4E timing debate.

haydn28

Member +
missing a conclusion i see now.

according to my tuners there is a reasonable differens in vlave timing between the 2 marks, but how that will effect they couldn't say.
they didn't recommend 4e marks on my 5e

i need to take a look on the position difference to give my final conclusion.
as my car has a standalone ECU, i think i can (if i switched) role out the ignition difference.

I've just tried this , I have a 5efte with a power fc and timing set on 4E mark , while keeping the ecu programmed to 10deg on idle in a 5x5 section of the map.using a timing light the distributer read 10deg on idle.

now I timed it to the 5E mark, the exhaust (and intake) cam needed to be advanced for the 5E marks to line up with the crankshaft mark at TDC .

now advancing the cams will retard the distributer , or so i found with my 5x5 idle map still set to 10 deg when i checked the distributer ignition timing i found it to be aprox 8 deg , thereby i assume that changing the marks from 4E to 5E will advance cams 2 degrees and retard ignition 2 degrees.

just tried out the car on 5E marks , it picks up faster , less turbo lag , a lot of mid range and some what diminished top end compared to when it was on 4E, i think i just have to test this on the dyno .

btw SPUDDY what became of your test?
 
just tried out the car on 5E marks , it picks up faster , less turbo lag , a lot of mid range and some what diminished top end compared to when it was on 4E, i think i just have to test this on the dyno .

hey haydn28...when you say "somewhat diminished top end"...could you possibly explain a little more
was it a marginal or a slight loss in top end? ....or was it a very noticeable loss in top end?

did you prefer the 5e or 4e setting?...what timing mark do you have the car on now?

did you ever get to the dyno with it?

thanks for any feedback
 

kearnsy gt

Member +
I dun a 5e build a wile back and set the timing at the 5e marks wen i shud of used the 4e marks as its 4e ecu . I had to replace the top end wit my old 4e one and jst run a 5e bottom end set it again for 4e and it started 1st time
 

Skalabala

Member +
This whole thread makes no sence!!
Cam timing is a statick thing end of story!
You can adjust cam timing by a max of two teeth thats it!

5E and 4E cam timing marks are light years appart!!
In fact it is almost 180deg differance!

Something else plays a role here and WheeJohn has given the most realistic input so far.

ask your self on what marks does a 4efe work with its also highish CR???

LOL!!!

If you take a lets say VTECK and turbo it you don't go and adjust cam timing by 10 teeth!

Not being rude at all :)
 

spuddy

Ulster Area Rep.
It is near 180 degs on the pully yes but it only works out about half a tooth.

If fitting aftermarket cams the timing should be set manually anyway, the markings are just a guideline.
 

goldenvtr

Member +
Damn i remember this thread, just found it again whilst researching into my new setup and again thinking "shall i go 4 or 5e cam marks" LOL

im going to BUMP it up as im guessing alot more people run 5e's these days.

ps ive always ran 5e timing marks butas an adjustable cam gear is now available, can any light be shed on timing angle to go for?
 

weeJohn

Lifer
ps ive always ran 5e timing marks butas an adjustable cam gear is now available, can any light be shed on timing angle to go for?

I spent lots of hours in the garage trying to get a good overlap with 5efhe cams and and adjustable timing pulley.

May as well have put the timing belt on with my eyes closed for all the good it would have done lol.
 

5e colin

Member +
my forged 5e is on 4e marks and has more top power ,, on the 5e marks i get more torque and lose top end


this was only tested on a mines p&p and tdo5

dont know wit a stand alone ecu might be totally different ?????????????????
 

goldenvtr

Member +
my forged 5e is on 4e marks and has more top power ,, on the 5e marks i get more torque and lose top end


this was only tested on a mines p&p and tdo5

dont know wit a stand alone ecu might be totally different ?????????????????

Was that a back to back figuer comparison? im thining as my car is going to be dedicated track use that ill benefit from the torque rather than top end, unless i get adjustable pulley and meet half way!

also was there any difference in spool as i could do with extra spool with my new setup
 
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goldenvtr

Member +

haha, Was that your final setup for the beast??

I spent lots of hours in the garage trying to get a good overlap with 5efhe cams and and adjustable timing pulley.

May as well have put the timing belt on with my eyes closed for all the good it would have done lol.

lol, was it worth all the effort? any figuers to back it up? as ive only got stock fte cams itll be diffrent but what degree did you settle on :p?
 

AdamB

Member +
Just dial the cams in using a DTI and be done with it, that way you know your valve timing is spot on regardless of what the mark says on the pulleys.
 

weeJohn

Lifer
haha, Was that your final setup for the beast??



lol, was it worth all the effort? any figuers to back it up? as ive only got stock fte cams itll be diffrent but what degree did you settle on :p?

Stock cam timing, couldnt get the pulley adjusted far enough to get both the cams where I wanted them, even with the intake or exhaust 1 tooth out on the internal cam gear.
 

5e colin

Member +
Was that a back to back figuer comparison? im thining as my car is going to be dedicated track use that ill benefit from the torque rather than top end, unless i get adjustable pulley and meet half way!

also was there any difference in spool as i could do with extra spool with my new setup

that was tested in a space off 2 hours i first ran the 5e timing then my friend arrived to tel me , run 4e marks bud ,
spool time i could not tel u thats 2 years ago now
 

AdamB

Member +
Stock cam timing, couldnt get the pulley adjusted far enough to get both the cams where I wanted them, even with the intake or exhaust 1 tooth out on the internal cam gear.

Not being a true twin cam is what lets it down :(
Would be great if someone made an adjustable mesh gear. Would be the best way to do it I think.
 

weeJohn

Lifer
Not being a true twin cam is what lets it down :(
Would be great if someone made an adjustable mesh gear. Would be the best way to do it I think.

Its possible, I looked at it and made a prototype for the exhaust cam, but adjustment while the cams are in would be tricky and that sort of ruins the idea.
 
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