5speed into a 20 valve levin

christyep91

christyep91

Lifer
does anybody know if a starlet 5speed box will fit straight into an AE111 20 valve levin???
i know a lad with a turboed one who broke his 6 speed box.
i told him iv seen people on here say the 5 speed is stronger is this true???
 
christyep91

christyep91

Lifer
oh bolox..is it just the 6 speed box from the g6R that fits the starlet???
would the 6 speed bell housing fit the 5 speed box
 
Texx

Texx

Super Moderator
AFAIK the G6R 6 speed box is made of cheese, you would want a E53 or E56 5 speed transmission to fit that engine if you intend to give it some abuse.
 
Texx

Texx

Super Moderator
They are fitted to the 4AGZE Levin. I think the E53 was fitted to the earlier airflow meter equipped engine and the E56 was fitted to the later MAP sensor equipped engine. I believe the internals are very much the same as a Rev1 MR2 Turbo gearbox.

You may possibly need the starter motor from an 4AGZE as well as I think it's bolted to the other side of the bell housing and the mounting is slightly different.
 
pc18

pc18

North West England Area Rep.
christyep91 said:
oh bolox..is it just the 6 speed box from the g6R that fits the starlet???
would the 6 speed bell housing fit the 5 speed box
Click to expand...

the g6r box does not fit the starlet. its the g6 box from the corolla 1.3 that bolts straight on.

in my experience the g6 box is not made of cheese i ran 210bhp through mine without issue and i didn't just potter about all the time.
 
Last edited:
Texx

Texx

Super Moderator
A C series transmission would not have a hope in hell coping with the power and torque from a turbo'd 4AGE, that's why Toyota didn't use one with the 4AGZE.
 
H

hardcoreep

Member +
Texx said:
A C series transmission would not have a hope in hell coping with the power and torque from a turbo'd 4AGE, that's why Toyota didn't use one with the 4AGZE.
Click to expand...
My friend makes 414whp with a C56. He made 368 on a C52. He drag races and drives his car daily. Several of my friends are over 250whp on a C series gearbox, hell one friend made 248 on his autobox and that lasted him 2years, so I really dont know what your talking about when it comes to strength. The reason the GZE comes with a E series gearbox is because its from the SW20 MR2 and already had an LSD in it. Unlike the C series where they had to figure out a way to add one.

The case for both gearboxes are the same, what you will need to do is swap the bellhousing. The exception are certain C52 that come on the AE101 20v Levin. I've noticed that a few of them don't have the holes for the front gearbox mount.

If you're going to turbocharge your Levin I would advise you to do the swap. As someone with actual experience the problem with the six-speed is that its gearing is for an NA car. This means short ratios and a very high final drive. This is where the damage comes from. You have to shift to 3rd to hit 60mph, so full throttle launches are usless. I drive around mostly in third or fourth, and if you have the power you can launch in those gears. I wouldn't even bother turbocharging the 4AG 5speed, that gearing has its limitations as well.

The EP gearbox has longer gearing more suited to a turbocharged car.
 
Last edited:
Texx

Texx

Super Moderator
From what I was led to believe the weak points are the needle roller bearings, particularly 2nd and 3rd gear and the C52 and C56 EP turbo box's were fitted with stronger needle roller bearings to cope with the extra torque from the output of the turbo equipped engines. I think the input and output shaft bearings were the same, only the actual gear bearings were changed, although I could be wrong.

When you say 414hp with a C56 and 368hp with a C52, are you referring to EP turbo box's? If your referring to a N/A box, then I'm impressed they've held together with that sort of power and hats off to you guys for proving that hearsay doesn't always ring true.

Personally, I wouldn't see the point in fitting another C series transmission to a 4A-GTE (unless you were planning to swap a 4A bell housing onto a EP turbo C52 or C56) when you can just get an E series box that will bolt straight on and not really have to worry about it too much. Plus like you say, the stock gear ratios in any of the 6 speed box's will not really be suited to an engine with lots of available torque. I suppose it's not so bad if you've got a good source of transmissions and the patience to swap them out, I'm just a bit lazy and prefer to try and not have to do a job more than once.

Didn't the 20v Levin GT fitted with a C160 come with a LSD as standard?
 
H

hardcoreep

Member +
When you say 414hp with a C56 and 368hp with a C52, are you referring to EP turbo box's? If your referring to a N/A box, then I'm impressed they've held together with that sort of power and hats off to you guys for proving that hearsay doesn't always ring true.
Click to expand...

The c52 was a a Gt Turbo gearbox on a 368wheel horespower EP82. The C56 (AE111 20v) is in a EP71 running a turbocharged AE111 4AGE20v. The owner swapped the engine into the EP71 NA then turbocharged it.

I have a C160 in my EP91, its been there for several years now. I drive 104miles everyday back and forth to work. I've only recently had issues with the gearbox which was attributed to the fact that I drove it for four months without oil in it unknowningly. It has been repaired and been working fine for over a year now.

Not all C160s come with LSDs. Only the AE111 BZR comes with it standard. There is a C160-12A and C160-13A.

The one gearbox I've constantly had problems with is the NA starlet gearbox. This is the one with the six bolt differential. I've gone through four of these.
 
H

hardcoreep

Member +
christyep91 said:
so an e53 or e56 would be a good box for it.
thanks
Click to expand...

The E-series gearbox wont bolt up to the 20v engine. To use the E-series you'd need the GZE block, axles and front suspension. The C-series bellhousing cannot be swapped over to the E-series gearbox and the other stuff as stated are different from the NA version as well. Not to mention there is no AE111 GTZ only a AE101 4AGZE GTZ.
 
Texx

Texx

Super Moderator
So the 20v doesn't use the 7 rib 4A block? I never knew Toyota made a later revision of that engine block. Out of interest, have you any idea what the main differences are?
 
H

hardcoreep

Member +
Texx said:
So the 20v doesn't use the 7 rib 4A block? I never knew Toyota made a later revision of that engine block. Out of interest, have you any idea what the main differences are?
Click to expand...

I don't know if the AE101 20v will take the the GZE gearbox. It might. However, I have tried the AE101 GZE gearbox on the AE111 20v and it doesn't fit properly. Maybe it was me. Maybe not. One thing is for certain is that the GZE axles are different and won't go into the hubs of the AE111 and vice versa. You would require the front SuperStrut Suspension from the GTZ. A friend of mine did a GZE swap into his AE111 FZ, so that's how I know that much. He had done the 20v swap, but wanted a LSD so he bought the GZE gearbox thinking it would work. It didn't so he went back to the junkyard and just bought the full GZE set up then installed it.
 
H

hardcoreep

Member +
What do you guys do to your six speeds. I've had mine for over four years now, its been rebuilt once because I drove it for four months without any oil in it. I have 145whp on high boost and 124whp on low boost. I drive 52 miles back and forth to work five days a week at minimum. Its been great.

What I do is dont drag race it, or if I do launch, do so in third because you cant hit 60mph in second.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top