High compression, turbo.

[nexia201]

i still dont see the need to rev up to 10,000 rpm cant see the engine last that long revving it to those revs!(id give it a week or 2) and what is the use a honda CTR revs to 9,000rpm when my car only revs to 6,300 rpm and leave it very far behind at the quarter mile?? I would only go to 7,500 with the revs to have a reliable engine just remember you will be running High Cr and Boost which at 10,000 you will have bent internals surely it will be just a question of when.

 

[Sigma]

The view of 'it doesn't need to rev to 10k', I completely understand, but I'm actually doing, is setting myself the challenge to make the first 4E rev to 10k.

And I want it to be the first one to see well over 200bhp, with very little boost pressure.

Yes, I'm going to need a relatively large turbocharger, but with the power increase lower down (It'll roughly be about 120bhp off boost ), the transition will be smoother.

It's all in the concept engineering stage at the moment.

What I need now, is a fucked engine

Anyone know of a complete rattling engine going for pennies?

 

[Big_Daddy]

Just to add, if you have the head skimmed, eg headgasket, to retain the standard low Cr ratio, do you thinner or thicker gasket?

 

[Sigma]

Thicker, because you've skimmed away some of the head.

 

[Knightsy-EP91]

The only way your going to do this safely is either drop a b16 into a starlet lol. . . . (if possible) or . . . . . . . . .

buy a honda.

 

[Sigma]

The only way your going to do this safely is either drop a b16 into a starlet lol. . . . (if possible) or . . . . . . . . .

buy a honda.

WRONG!

This WILL happen

 

[bimboy]

I like your idea but a couple issues. The compession of a 5e with standard 4efte pistons is around 9:1 and guys run 15psi on the on piss water gas here in Barbados. So if you target 9:1-10:1 on your 4efte with forged pistons I do not see what the big problem is? You would have a nice car when it is off boost. To raise compression I doan like shaving (just personal preference) I would prefer pistons and gasket manipluation to achieve the compression you are looking for. With regards to your rpm, I agree with hardcore, and big cams will cause also cause excessive overlap, and I believe they would increase cylinder pressures which because of the slave cam design is a problem for the 4efte. You can get some mild regrinds or cruise cams or something, and rev the car to about 7800-8200 or something nothing to high or your engine is gonna wear unneccessarily,which brings me to the turbo,I also agree that you got to ditch the ct9. Find something that would give the characteristics that you want in a turbo with out producing to much heat and with the compression ratio you are interested in that is a wide list.
Try something you might start the new trend

 

[Sigma]

This was my whole idea, Bimboy

I want to do something new, something innovative and something which I could potentially pioneer in the future and give people an alternative to rediculous boost levels and shitty torque.

 

[bimboy]

:haha: shitty torque. keep fighting the good fight.

 

[parkiboy]

The view of 'it doesn't need to rev to 10k', I completely understand, but I'm actually doing, is setting myself the challenge to make the first 4E rev to 10k.

And I want it to be the first one to see well over 200bhp, with very little boost pressure.

I'm pretty sure someone has already achieved way over 200bhp with a CT9, sure it was Dub-Se7en, it is a turbo SR anyways but very good results for a CT9 around 227bhp i think it was.

 

[Sigma]

Im talking like 0.75bar, dude... and 250bhp!

 

[nexia201]

you would have too much detonation problems ( i had mine with 5psi) at that high cr and boost it will cost you well over the 5,000 you planned to spend. and you are starting on a bad leg already as you are asking for a rattler ! you need the best condition engine ever if you expect it to last up until you take it on the rr (and might die there )

The honda unit would last more cos it is designed to go to those revs even when standard (how i hate the bastards) and it would be more reliable , but as you said you want to try this goodluck with your project

 

[Starlet_Sam]

I'm pretty sure someone has already achieved way over 200bhp with a CT9, sure it was Dub-Se7en, it is a turbo SR anyways but very good results for a CT9 around 227bhp i think it was.

He did, but only just over 200, nowhere near 227

 

[Sigma]

you would have too much detonation problems ( i had mine with 5psi) at that high cr and boost it will cost you well over the 5,000 you planned to spend. and you are starting on a bad leg already as you are asking for a rattler ! you need the best condition engine ever if you expect it to last up until you take it on the rr (and might die there )

The honda unit would last more cos it is designed to go to those revs even when standard (how i hate the bastards) and it would be more reliable , but as you said you want to try this goodluck with your project

I want a shagged rattling piece of shit to tear apart and rebuild!

There's no point in removing my perfectly serviceable engine from my GT only to destroy it in the process of this.

I want a knackered one, so I can grind, lighten, crossdrill etc without fear of making it any worse.

And before anyone think's I'm going to be taking a halfords angle grinder to a flywheel, I've got access to a million pound engineering facility

 

[Phil]

He did, but only just over 200, nowhere near 227

def a few people running decent power 220+ on ct9 hybrids, funny thing is everyone ive seen the dyno graph of seems to perform like a td04>?

they seriously arent the answer for response, who was it recently that made 230+ his graph showed the characteristics of a well tuned td04 @ 1bar

tomhunt i think?

Phil

 

[Sigma]

Yeah, think it was Phil.

I think my first move will be to get the head sorted, and bolt it onto my standard engine.

So it'll be gas flown, ported, polished as a first stage, and then I'll see how it goes.

While I'm using the GT with this concept head on, I'll be doing the lower end of the knackered engine.

List of to do's with the block are as follows...

-Fully destress, remove all casting marks, have baring tolorances perfected.
-Remove as much mass as possible, drill and balance standard flywheel.
-Cross drill, mass removal and balance standard crankshaft.
-Fit lightest weight forged conrods I can find.
-Fit hemi, forged pistons.
-Deck the engine block as far as possible, raising compression upto around 9.5-10:1.
-Machine the bores so they are perfectly circular, and match factory specifications.
-Cross hone bores.

 

[Phil]

I'm going to be taking a halfords angle grinder to a flywheel,

IF you were the type of person to try that id have about as much confidence in this working lol

but if the people with the million pound blah blah are also doing the planning behind this project build then u have a chance. going to take some research dude but i wish you all the best,

my question is what about the first time you race a really quick 300bhp gt and you realise that lag doesnt exist in a straight line providing the person can launch and drive well, your beat? and it wont feel fair cause they havent spent the more or time developing a responsive 250hp.

as for pioneering well it takes some1 to try it! so do your research and impress us all

Phil

ps nice to see you determined to take the 4efte from another angle.

 

[Timmy]

There's a fundimental floor in this whole idea. A ct9 would be on full boost by 3k so when has anyone every dropped off boost when driving a ct9 4efte, you'd seriously have to be a bad driver. The only reason to increase to compression is to tip over the 200bhp on a stock engine, even than it's only done with a thinner head gasket.
Also with the dome top pistons and thin headgasket your surely gonna hit the spark plug and or the valves.

 

[Phil]

does headwork not increase lag? more volume to fill in the exhaust side before positive boost is created? and smoothing the inlet track reduces air swirl in the cyclinder making the burn pattern less energy efficient?

just wondering?

Phil

 

[Sigma]

Cheers mate!

It's moral support like this that will spur me on to doing this, and doing it right!

As to it being beaten by a 300-350bhp anything, isn't really a concern.

When we built the Evo650+ we specified that it had to do a list of things, just like I have done here, and when it was finished and upto today, it doesn't matter if someone comes along and beats it, because it does what it was intended to do.

In the case of the Evo, the fact that it has over 650bhp at the wheels is fairly fun, and it does beat everything!

My target is 250bhp and similar torque figures but with ultimate drivablity.

I don't drag race, I don't race people on the streets. I enjoy thrashing the bollocks off my GT, on my own around Windemere and Derbyshire, and this is what I'm building the engine to acheive!

I've even considered a bi-turbo setup, similar to a RX7, with a smaller, and larger turbo charger to allow the engine to rev to my 10k target and retain suffiecient boost. The downside to this would be a chance of over speeding the smaller turbo, if I dont put it in a seperate manifold with it's own wastegate!

Complicated, but I beleive we have the aptitude and equipment to acheive our goal

Keep the discussion coming lads, this threads going to be printed and put into the engines build folder.