Quarter mile discussion

[Dan3SGTE]

Yeah im bored lol.. But thought id share my view and see what others make of it as it seems a big topic of discussion in general.


Alot of people go on about quarter mile alot which is cool, im well into it and i hope to crack a 10 with my set up in the coming months. If i dont though its no biggy as to me its a time just from a standing start/grip from very low gears. I dont really ever launch in general, i dont find that all that fun.. In fact, how many of you do actually launch on road or on track where the car is mostly used?

Its when your on a roll around town or on track and you open the throttle and make use of power for me and where it counts unless a dedicated DRAG car where this Thread doesnt really apply to as it isnt for road use.... Quarter mile is just some fun and alot to do with launches as many of you know, and track conditions/weather on the day etc etc etc... Whilst on road and track there are much less variable and can use power more effectively.

Power does make your car faster FACT. However it might not make you launch better. I say this as i hear alot about "its not about power"... Well to be honest i think it is alot about power and going for more isnt pointless in most cases.(obviously there is a limit) Keeping your car low power just so you can launch in 1st gear fast is a bit weird IMO. Just because you hold a better quarter mile does not mean your car is faster in gerenral... It means you can pull off the line faster and most races are from a roll weather your having fun on the street(not condoning this im just saying) or on the track..

Whats everyones views?

 

[turboloon]

the thing is dan you can have to much power and you have issues getting it down...but like you i like putting the foot down when i'm 'rolling',and getting a huge hit off power can't beat it

 

[weeJohn]

Its not all about max power, its about a wide power band, on the street, track or strip, in any gear at any set "race". Its been proven that less horsepower over a wider rev range is faster than a bigger number over a small rev range.

Have a look at this graph

At 4200 rpm this car has less than 80 bhp, well down on stock power, plus the engine is still working hard to spool the turbo.

Now have a look at this one...

70 bhp less max but it was 0.5 seconds faster up the quarter and it sat with the first car easily on the road up to 120 mph. Both 4WD Starlets with similar specs apart from the turbo and ecu, the 2 dynos have been compared by cars and read the same to within a bhp.

 

[Dan3SGTE]

@turboloon.. Yeah i agree way too much power you will struggle like i said in the original post. There is a limit but on the right set up that limit is high if you have a good top speed especially.

@Weejohn... Oh i totally understand the concept of the broad power band, ive had this discussion with hundreds of people. Im all for a broad power under the curve.. Thats one of the things i love about the 2.0liter in my car. But that isnt really the argument ive brought up as which ever way you look at it, peak or under the curve its still power at the end of the day. And more of it where ever it is in the revs.

 

[richglanzav]

i think that its ok to have mental power and fwd lol...as the old saying goes - its all down to the driver. ive seen drivers make not so quick cars set really good times purely down to their skill level.

and i agree with the previous comment u cant beat a rolling start in a high power starlet then punch the power...3rd gear roll ftw

 

[AdamB]

As you said in the first post mate, unless your car is dedicated at "something" then most of us all just roll round before planting the pedal.
To me I believe that torque is a much better figure/result/topic for discussion than bhp. I would rather a large torque band no matter what the car is used for.

 

[weeJohn]

which ever way you look at it, peak or under the curve its still power at the end of the day. And more of it where ever it is in the revs.

You are not looking at it but, 60 bhp more and its a slower car!!!

 

[Arnold]

i think that its ok to have mental power and fwd lol...as the old saying goes - its all down to the driver. ive seen drivers make not so quick cars set really good times purely down to their skill level.

I've only ever dragged mine once and found no matter what I tried, it kept spinning up through 1st and 2nd. I tried high rpm launches and slow ones and building up the power, but once the turbo kicked / put foot down, in it just struggled! Fastest time with a full interior + loads of crap & passenger was around a 15.0 (190hp CT9). The coilovers were set quite hard which i've since read should have been set to softer. Still it's a learning curve and hopefully i'll do better next time!

 

[Dan3SGTE]

You are not looking at it but, 60 bhp more and its a slower car!!!

yes it may have 60BHP more peak power but obviously where your changing gear the peakier power car must be dropping off to a lesser power then the lesser power starlet. Lag on gear change etc etc.. Some starlet with large turbos are bloody shit to drive with the 4E as they lag between changes making it not so fast until after 110ish when they get to stay in a gear for long enough to use power.

But my point of this thread isnt about power bands/curves etc as weather the power is under the curve or for longer or peaks higher thats irrelevant to what im saying, as more power makes a car faster where ever it is or for how ever long it is through the rev range.. Power is power and the more you have of it the faster a car will go traction permitted. Fact. This isnt about comparisons between a wide power band and a peaky power band.

Read my post again mate, its about quarter mile racing to street/track driving. Why people get carried away and use a quarter mile time as gospel as to be fair its just getting off that line really when your car is very fast...

 

[spuddy]

Well my thinking has always been, launch above the lag threshold in my case I set off about 5500rpm and never drop below that when changing gears at 9000rpm so I couldn't care less about the laggy bit before 5000rpm

 

[Dan3SGTE]

Well my thinking has always been, launch above the lag threshold in my case I set off about 5500rpm and never drop below that when changing gears at 9000rpm so I couldn't care less about the laggy bit before 5000rpm

lol again kind of not what i was getting at with the original post.

 

[Murray]

Your first post is leaning more towards 30-130 type events? Even though your thread title is about the quarter mile.
People often say this type of event shows a cars true performance, without the standing start, the only thing to get right is your gear changes.I like standing starts, it takes abit of skill and setup to get right, wheres the fun in beating someone from a rolling start? When at the end of the day more power is more money. So the rich become the fastest.
Out on the roads theres variables like having less traction than the likes of Santapod etc, police cars, pedestrians etc etc.:haha:

Power doesnt make your car faster,it makes it more powerfull. On track i can keep away
from cars that have more power. I have beat higher powered faster cars at the 1/4 mile also. So what does that come down too?

Murray

 

[weeJohn]

as more power makes a car faster where ever it is or for how ever long it is through the rev range.. Power is power and the more you have of it the faster a car will go traction permitted.

I have proved that wrong, you obviously have not read the bottom of my post or is there something you dont understand? The car with less less bhp was a faster car, on the strip and on the road!

Horsepower gives the car the ability to maintain speed, not reach it.

 

[AdamB]

Horsepower is how fast you get there, Torque is how long you stay there for

 

[Dan3SGTE]

Your first post is leaning more towards 30-130 type events? Even though your thread title is about the quarter mile.
People often say this type of event shows a cars true performance, without the standing start, the only thing to get right is your gear changes.I like standing starts, it takes abit of skill and setup to get right, wheres the fun in beating someone from a rolling start? When at the end of the day more power is more money. So the rich become the fastest.
Out on the roads theres variables like having less traction than the likes of Santapod etc, police cars, pedestrians etc etc.:haha:

Power doesnt make your car faster,it makes it more powerfull. On track i can keep away
from cars that have more power. I have beat higher powered faster cars at the 1/4 mile also. So what does that come down too?

Murray

My thread title is a quarter mile discussion i.e what people think about racing in these events and why people get caught up other it when in actually fact its only really about how fast your first gear accelerates.. Well not only that but its got a hell of alot to do with it...

I also enjoy quarter mile racing/standing starts from time to time but only for fun and not to be taken so seriously as that is not an indication of how fast your car is, its an indication of how fast you can pull off and maintain traction at low speed.

The fact you beat more powerful car on track means that your car was either better set up or experience of your driving was greater then theirs. I wooped loads of faster cars on the tracks that i went on in my EK9 back in the day so i know what you mean. Now i put it like this. Those cars you were beating round the track, imagine your car was even slower and with less power but with exactly the same chassis set up and driver. You wouldnt be beating them as much if beating them at all. And once on the move your car will be faster with more power. Every time ive gained power on all my cars they always seem to go faster LOL.

 

[Dan3SGTE]

I have proved that wrong, you obviously have not read the bottom of my post or is there something you dont understand? The car with less less bhp was a faster car, on the strip and on the road!

Horsepower gives the car the ability to maintain speed, not reach it.

I did read that part.. And does that car with more power not have a shorter power band with more lag through gear changes due to the larger turbo? You cant compare power of 2 completely different set ups which i assume the 2 cars have different turbo set ups?

E.G.... Same set up, one has more power then the other one though. The one with more power on a roll with exact drivers, fact the more powerful WILL be faster.

And did you not say the one with more power is faster higher up anyway? after 120? And the lesser power one "stays" not beats the higher power one on road?

Also that is so wrong im sorry... HP will give you total amount of speed, the torque and broad power band will help you to accelerate to that speed.. If thats what you meant but worded differently then fair enough.. But to me maintain speed means not increasing. Which is wrong.

 

[Dan3SGTE]

And WEEJOHN looking at teh graph i can totally see why the lesser power car stays with the higher PEAK power as the higher power one has literally no power for most of the rev range so the average of power through the gears is similar if not less. Its obvious.

 

[AdamB]

Tbh if for example you compare the exact 2 same setups, same CR engines, same exhaust manifold, downpipe, exhaust system, air filter etc etc. But maintained both setups on say a td04, with one at 220bhp and one at 260bhp, the same driver down a quarter mile, then yes the setup with 260bhp will be quicker.

Trying to compare a td04 to a gt30 is two different ball games, the gt30 will have a totally different power band, different way of pushing the power. Obviously the more power you run in a FWD car the better the chassis needs to be setup to be able to maintain traction, YET you can only do so much until you start pushing the world backwords.

 

[weeJohn]

Power does make your car faster FACT. However it might not make you launch better. I say this as i hear alot about "its not about power"... Well to be honest i think it is alot about power and going for more isnt pointless in most cases.(obviously there is a limit) Keeping your car low power just so you can launch in 1st gear fast is a bit weird IMO. Just because you hold a better quarter mile does not mean your car is faster in gerenral... It means you can pull off the line faster and most races are from a roll weather your having fun on the street(not condoning this im just saying) or on the track..

Whats everyones views?

You are contradicting yourself Dan, but you are not wrong, big power gives big speed. Animals 10 second run was done with a big power increase from what he had before, and most 10 second cars have a lot more horsepower than 11 second cars as its needed to get the car there in that time. You dont switch off the power or reduce it when you launch (as you know from doing it before) you control the amount of power you transfer to the ground.

A big bhp number does not always mean a fast car is the point I am making, the WRC rally cars are (supposedly) 300bhp, but there is not many cars out there that will touch them for pure speed and acceleration. I am leaving my end of the discussion there, maybe Kon will add a little something as he is knocking on the door of 10s with a small number compared to other cars about, and Finxs car is still running a CT9 and doing 12`s!!

 

[Dan3SGTE]

You are contradicting yourself Dan, but you are not wrong, big power gives big speed. Animals 10 second run was done with a big power increase from what he had before, and most 10 second cars have a lot more horsepower than 11 second cars as its needed to get the car there in that time. You dont switch off the power or reduce it when you launch (as you know from doing it before) you control the amount of power you transfer to the ground.

A big bhp number does not always mean a fast car is the point I am making, the WRC rally cars are (supposedly) 300bhp, but there is not many cars out there that will touch them for pure speed and acceleration. I am leaving my end of the discussion there, maybe Kon will add a little something as he is knocking on the door of 10s with a small number compared to other cars about, and Finxs car is still running a CT9 and doing 12`s!!

John i think i am actually agreeing with you mate lol. But we are wording things differently or i cant get my point out properly one of the 2. I am totally with you on the Big peak number car not necessarily being a fast car, even so especially up the quarter mile. Thats due to a very well set up car for traction/powerband/minimum lag through gear changes etc and alot out there use NOS to eliminate it. Its not just the numbers that get you there.