School shooting in Germany & an Alabama lunatic

Beaker

Beaker

Member +
Guns are legal in the US because they stick to some old fashioned ideas that you must be able to defend your home. What they havent realised is that there are no longer hoardes of red indians around because they have already killed them all. A lot of yanks are comming round to the fact that there is no logical reason for you to need military grade heavy machine guns at home but as Charlton Heston said to ban guns you will need to prise them from their "cold, dead hands"
 
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MAD_MO

Member +
Thats fucked up man. They have gunshops in america like we have off licences in england. All you need is a fake id and anyone can get hold of one and go crazy ith it. Atlest they aint blaming the muslims this time.
 
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y3Lo

Member +
it's not the guns that kill though, it's the messed up people, even if they did make them illegal people can still get them, or they would find other ways to do things like this, homemade bombc etc?
 
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dont_tell_him_pike

Member +
America badly needs to address it's cultural and societal shortcomings. Anyone who hasn't seen bowling for columbine, watch it. real eye opener.

I think the long and short is their history of violence and fear means they're always scared of people coming to get them. So they get a gun.
The american dream is also flawed - it encourages people to selfishly persue their own success and happiness at whatever cost, creating a culture of alienation of the socially inept, leading to many such people getting so pissed off they resort to the trusty american solution to people you dont like - shoot them.
 
gv1.3

gv1.3

Admin
dont_tell_him_pike said:
America badly needs to address it's cultural and societal shortcomings. Anyone who hasn't seen bowling for columbine, watch it. real eye opener.
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yeah lets allow Micheal Moore educate us on what is right in the world. Anyone seen his film sicko? where he explains how fantastic social healthcare is in Europe.. he kind of leaves out the bits where you cant get seen to for months, go into hospital and end up getting MRSA and generally get rubbish healthcare. But in Mr Moores one sided movies or fairytales as I like to call them the healthcare system in Europe is fantastic!

GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE.... PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.

I have been living here for over a year now in a fairly large city and I can honestly say that I have heard of more murders and shootings in Ireland than I have on the local news here.... so what does that tell you?? In a country where owning guns is pretty much impossible (Ireland) there are shooting daily!

The usual USA haters will pile in and say Americans are stupid etc.. I know lots of people here that have guns. You can do a day long course and get a concealed weapons permit which allows you to walk around with a gun. Have I seen anyone pull a gun out and use it here? NO... do they have them? YES

I notice someone mentioned "at least Americans didnt blame muslims this time" well let me tell you something... when the Saudi's give the call to arms to their muslim militants who are embedded throughout the world you can bet your life we will all be reaching for guns if we have them because we are going to need them! Especially in countries such as the UK.

And finally... say what you want about americans clinging on to their right to bear arms and how stupid it is. When someone breaks into your house and you defend your family in the UK or Ireland you are the one who is liable to go to jail for assault... over here... if someone breaks in and you put a couple of rounds in their head then too bad they shouldnt have been on your property.... which makes sense to you? I know what law Id rather be living under.

again.. guns dont kill people.... people kill people.

EDIT: I actually cant believe people get their opinions of america from a micheal moore film... what has the world come to.
 
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dont_tell_him_pike

Member +
You can ignore anything micheal moore says himself in bowling for columbine - the facts presented speak for themselfs. One example - A child shot dead another child, aged 6. his mother wasn't around to stop him taking a gun to school because the woeful minimum wage and lack of support forced her to work absurd hours. He was immersed in a culture that glamourises violence and offers it as a solution. He did what he did without having a clue about the consequences. That's just one example. The comparisons to Canadian gun culture (where they are just as easy to come by but no one shoots each other) was also an eye opening illustration of the essentially cultural failiure of America.

Of course you don't see as many gun stories in the press - they're so commonplace only the really big or unusual cases get reported. If you compare the gun crime statistics things look very different indeed.

Edit: Micheal moore films do not change opinions, just improve understanding of the things already had opinions about. If anything, they make americans look better by showing the deeper causes of what on the surface appears to be merely mass stupidity.
 
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Beaker

Beaker

Member +
gv1.3 said:
And finally... say what you want about americans clinging on to their right to bear arms and how stupid it is. When someone breaks into your house and you defend your family in the UK or Ireland you are the one who is liable to go to jail for assault... over here... if someone breaks in and you put a couple of rounds in their head then too bad they shouldnt have been on your property.... which makes sense to you? I know what law Id rather be living under.
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You mis understood. Owning a gun is one thing. Being legally allowed to purchase weapons which are of no use at all in home defence because they are huge calibre heavy machine guns that are used against armoured vehicles etc. There is no reason for any member of the public to own weapons like that.
That is stupid and even in america there is no sane reason why guns like this should not be limited to the police and armed forces.
 
Starlet_Sam

Starlet_Sam

Moderator, Regional Area Reps Supervisor & Gay Car
Meh, there's how many millions of people in the USA? Your bound to get few nutters.
 
Dar81

Dar81

Lifer
Eh, there was also a shooting in Germany.. A 17 year old lad shot 15 people dead in a secondary school..

Let’s not get too caught up with 'how crazy Americans are'.. There are gun crime issue all over the world.. Granted, some countries have, statistically, more than others but it's not just America that has gun violence problems..

Dylan, I agree about Ireland. The news seems to have stories about shootings every few days.

Sure, most of the gun incidents are drug gang related but a gun is a gun and someone shot dead over involvement in drugs is still someone shot dead.
 
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gv1.3

gv1.3

Admin
dont_tell_him_pike said:
You can ignore anything micheal moore says himself in bowling for columbine - the facts presented speak for themselfs. One example - A child shot dead another child, aged 6. his mother wasn't around to stop him taking a gun to school because the woeful minimum wage and lack of support forced her to work absurd hours. He was immersed in a culture that glamourises violence and offers it as a solution. He did what he did without having a clue about the consequences. That's just one example. The comparisons to Canadian gun culture (where they are just as easy to come by but no one shoots each other) was also an eye opening illustration of the essentially cultural failiure of America.

Of course you don't see as many gun stories in the press - they're so commonplace only the really big or unusual cases get reported. If you compare the gun crime statistics things look very different indeed.

Edit: Micheal moore films do not change opinions, just improve understanding of the things already had opinions about. If anything, they make americans look better by showing the deeper causes of what on the surface appears to be merely mass stupidity.
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Sorry mate I cant agree with you on this. Micheal Moore films do not improve understanding they give a one sided simplistic view of the world. Sicko for example says that private health care in america doesnt work.... so social healthcare must be the answer right? WRONG...

As for not seeing as many gun stories in the press because they are so common place? Mate I am living here and I watch the local news every day. If there is any sort of robbery or any crime at all it is on the local news... I see far more serious gun crime in Ireland than here... Ireland being a place where it is very difficult to legally own a gun... so that says you and Mr Moores argument about guns is a crock of crap...

As for comparing gun crime statistics... can I see the comparisons you have done please ? Obviously adjusted for the difference in population numbers to make it realistic or are you going by the gun stats that Mr Moore told you about in his movie?

Also .... to prove the bias toward America why is no one talking about the shooting in Germany that was also posted in this thread.... or does that not count because guns are not as readily available in Germany?? of course it counts... if someone wants to kill a load of people they will find a way to do it some people just love hating on countries that it appears they know pretty much nothing about.

As for the high powered weapons.. I dont see the point in them either and I personally dont want them but if someone does and they can afford them then that is there business... the reason I say this is because I genuinely believe that if people want to kill other people they will find a way to do it regardless of how easy it is to get a gun. This can be seen when terrorists use home made explosive devices etc... all using readily available materials.
 
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cameroon95

Member +
gv1.3 said:
Sorry mate I cant agree with you on this. Micheal Moore films do not improve understanding they give a one sided simplistic view of the world. Sicko for example says that private health care in america doesnt work.... so social healthcare must be the answer right? WRONG...

As for not seeing as many gun stories in the press because they are so common place? Mate I am living here and I watch the local news every day. If there is any sort of robbery or any crime at all it is on the local news... I see far more serious gun crime in Ireland than here... Ireland being a place where it is very difficult to legally own a gun... so that says you and Mr Moores argument about guns is a crock of crap...

As for comparing gun crime statistics... can I see the comparisons you have done please ? Obviously adjusted for the difference in population numbers to make it realistic or are you going by the gun stats that Mr Moore told you about in his movie?

Also .... to prove the bias toward America why is no one talking about the shooting in Germany that was also posted in this thread.... or does that not count because guns are not as readily available in Germany?? of course it counts... if someone wants to kill a load of people they will find a way to do it some people just love hating on countries that it appears they know pretty much nothing about.

As for the high powered weapons.. I dont see the point in them either and I personally dont want them but if someone does and they can afford them then that is there business... the reason I say this is because I genuinely believe that if people want to kill other people they will find a way to do it regardless of how easy it is to get a gun. This can be seen when terrorists use home made explosive devices etc... all using readily available materials.
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I know micheal moores movies arnt the best of material. Tis true that guns dont kill people,people do etc ect.


But when you hear of these school murders it really breaks your heart.
It all could have be avoided.Its true perhaps that they might try and do something with another weapon(if guns were banned) but guns allow people to do this without warning and very quickly with little time to react.


Guns enpower people in a way that no other weapon does. All they have to do is to point and shoot, any one can do it, doesn't matter if your weak or strong. Hence why messed up young kids often go on these sprees, as a form of revenge that is difficult to stop.

Im just glad that scotland doesn't have hardly any gun crime.
 
gv1.3

gv1.3

Admin
cameroon95 said:
I know micheal moores movies arnt the best of material. Tis true that guns dont kill people,people do etc ect.


But when you hear of these school murders it really breaks your heart.
It all could have be avoided.Its true perhaps that they might try and do something with another weapon(if guns were banned) but guns allow people to do this without warning and very quickly with little time to react.


Guns enpower people in a way that no other weapon does. All they have to do is to point and shoot, any one can do it, doesn't matter if your weak or strong. Hence why messed up young kids often go on these sprees, as a form of revenge that is difficult to stop.

Im just glad that scotland doesn't have hardly any gun crime.
Click to expand...


very true... the gun issue however seems to be an invitation for people to go off on one at the US whilst blatently ignoring the likes of what has just happened in Germany.

I think the solution lies with placing some value back on peoples lives. Look at all the knife attacks going on in the UK, the people who carry out those sort of assaults obviously have zero regard for life and that is more worrying to me than anything else.
 
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