Thrust washers problem

[iforged]

Hello,
I am new here and I would like to share my problem with you. I have a 5EFTE engine with Wiseco pistons, Pauter rods, Cruise 1.2mm HG, ported-polished head, and ORC309 clutch. The motor was built 2 months ago and had only 2000miles when the washers damaged....Someone told me that the ORC pressure plate is pressing the crank too much and the crank removed the aluminium from the washers. Then the washers fell to the oil pan... Does anyone had problems before with ORC?

 

[iforged]

 

[AdDaMan]

hmm, doesnt sound likely to me at all! ogura are very good clutches.
more like a shit build being the reason.

 

[goldenvtr]

very strange, where they original toyota thrust washers?, you have the same bottom end setup as me i used toyota genuine bearings but now (currently) im rebulding it again as it started knocking-but this was due to no oil pressure (my own fauly, wrongly installed oil thermostat)

Not really heard of that happening before to thurust washers unless the clearance as wrong, or they where wrongly installed.

 

[gorganl2000]

this is very interesting

me and my mechanic were discussing this in the past and just over the w/end it came up again,..i have always wondered how those thrust washers react to the extreme (very heavy) clutch/pressure plate set ups... as they take a LOT of pressure during the engagement/disengagement process------that's why they "tend" last forever in automatic cars lol

we both felt that such set ups could eventually destroy the thrust washers---mostly in theory,,,,,,,,but reality has been otherwise, as i have heard very few reported cases of it actually happening

it seems like the OEM thrust washers dont give out very easily....as i know a few high powered cars which use them and "extreme" uprated clutch assemblies without issues

might have been problems which were already there---wear , tolerances, etc......take it comepletely down and inspect everything properly.....its the best way to minimise encountering this problem again

 

[dantheman]

the clutch wont do that to a bearing, especially that quickly.. its true they put more pressure on the thrusts but usually the one nearest the flywheel. but ive never heard of one failing because of the clutch.. i think you should check your clearances, make sure your using the right size washers or the crank has been machined to the correct tolerance.. (and make sure they were put in correctly)

 

[Sigma]

Rebuilt it. And take extra caution in tolerance measurements.

Make sure that you double check your wear measurements, by using two pairs of verniers, incase one pair are faulty.

 

[Rory]

Verniers = Very nears

Use a Micrometer when rebuilding the engine!

I cant see how a clutch could do that.
Personally, i think the bearings were in the wrong way round.

 

[dantheman]

Personally, i think the bearings were in the wrong way round.

thats what i was thinking..

 

[scragley]

I had the same problem in my 5E with an Extreme HD clutch (1200kg pressure plate).

That engine did about 800km. I have since built up another engine and havnt had any trouble with it yet. Only done around 650km though. I put it down to two things:

Incorrect installation

Holding in the clutch when first turning the engine over (either right after rebuild or each time I start the car) maybe? I doubt I installed them incorrectly, so going with the second theory, the excessive pressure an no oil pressure made it grab.

It was not a simple rebuild though, the crank had some into contact with the block so both had to be binned. Also the bearings main bearings were worn in the edges because of the excessive crankshaft end to end movement. I had to start again with a new block and crank. I could save the rods and pistons.

 

[iforged]

I had the same problem in my 5E with an Extreme HD clutch (1200kg pressure plate).

That engine did about 800km. I have since built up another engine and havnt had any trouble with it yet. Only done around 650km though. I put it down to two things:

Incorrect installation

Holding in the clutch when first turning the engine over (either right after rebuild or each time I start the car) maybe? I doubt I installed them incorrectly, so going with the second theory, the excessive pressure an no oil pressure made it grab.

It was not a simple rebuild though, the crank had some into contact with the block so both had to be binned. Also the bearings main bearings were worn in the edges because of the excessive crankshaft end to end movement. I had to start again with a new block and crank. I could save the rods and pistons.

The installation was correct from the machinery shop and I double checked it before the installation of the other parts.

scragley my block has the same damage as yours. My crankshaft bearings are ok.... No damage....

Anyway I was thinkin getting another block with crank and rebuild the engine with 5e flywheel, instead of ORC, and use a better pressure plate and disk than stock.

Or try again with ORC....................?

I can't decide......

The washers was toyota original.

 

[Chris@CCM]

ive been using a orc clutch for ages on my 4efte with 150k on it . im fitting new thrust washers atm but only due to v small were and me be fussy but as said the engine has 150k on it

 

[HYBRID]

well put it this way, if u notice when ur installing the crank, there is a very minimal level of play till everything is torqued correctly, if u dont centre the crank perfectly u will shear the thrust washers as with each hit the crank gives it will cause damage to the washers.. which could result in crank walk & eventually could damage a bearing..

but its not down to the clutch.. thats for sure

kon

 

[Chris@CCM]

did u guys have a prob from ur idle diping when u pushed in the clutch mine did this some times be for and now its been rebuilt with new washers it doing it alot