** lets talk about injectors **

i have done a search on 330cc injectors and there seems to be mixed reports as to whether these are worth it, as i have read that by upping the fuel pressure you make the stock 295cc into 330cc

and that 330cc will only work at a certain fuel pressure, bla bla bla.

can anyone give definitive answers?

with facts to back up there answers

what power you aiming for mate?

whatever i can get lol

200-220 would be nice, but this will be on my high boost i would run low boost for every day.

but after doing a search there is so many mixed views on things.

i have read in the past that when 1.2 bar on ct9 hybrid the stock injectors max out past the 85% duty cycle.

but then i read that if you run a higher fuel pressure you will negate the need for 330cc's, and it's just a bit all well confusing really lol

My only experience with 330cc injectors was, once they were fitted, the car ran fine but a full tank of gas was empty by the end of the day. I was told the stock ecu would have eventually adjusted the duty cycle to compensate for the rich conditions, but I couldn't afford to wait for that to happen. Out they came the next day,

newguye said:

My only experience with 330cc injectors was, once they were fitted, the car ran fine but a full tank of gas was empty by the end of the day. I was told the stock ecu would have eventually adjusted the duty cycle to compensate for the rich conditions, but I couldn't afford to wait for that to happen. Out they came the next day,

Click to expand...

lol

also does anyone have the mazda part numbers? and do the mazda injectors work ok? as i have heard that some have a different spray pattern and make the car jerk

replied in your other thread ricky

goldenvtr said:

replied in your other thread ricky

Click to expand...

yeah see that.

i made this thread so we can hopefully get some definitive answers, and so people will just need to look at this one thread, rather than getting confusing views on things.

i'm more interested on what effect rising the fuel pressure on each injector size,

for example, if i ran 3.5bar fuel pressure would i have just negated the need for 330cc injectors

hmm hard to answer that but from personal experiance running bigger pressure is annoying, im forced to turn my pressure up to fuel correctly but i think the way my FCD and safc2 work tegether effect boost over stock ecu fuel cut as i couldnt seem to add more fuel over 0.9bar - strange as i think the injectors have more in them but by adding more pressure, after my RR session (im runnin 3.5bar on idle which hits about 5bar fuel press when accelarating) i started to blow the injector seals. its ok now but its obviasly straining them

the safc wont fuel past fuel cut with an fcd fitted, you need the rrfpr to compensate for this. the safc is just used to trim the fuel at lower values than fuel cut.

and about the injector seals, thats why i'm asking all these questions, in the hope to find out whether or not it is worth it to upgrade to 330cc injectors

sx_turbo said:

the safc wont fuel past fuel cut with an fcd fitted, you need the rrfpr to compensate for this. the safc is just used to trim the fuel at lower values than fuel cut.

Click to expand...

Sorry its not about injectors Ricky, but that comment confuses me lol !

My hope is to run a bar on my ct9 and Ive always been told that this is possible with an SAFC and FCD/FCC? Ive also had several people tell me that it is not necessary to have a RRFPR with an SAFC, but it does act as a fail safe if there is any electronic failure????? Do you not see it as this Ricky? Just like to hear your opinion thats all

ChrisW said:

Sorry its not about injectors Ricky, but that comment confuses me lol !

My hope is to run a bar on my ct9 and Ive always been told that this is possible with an SAFC and FCD/FCC? Ive also had several people tell me that it is not necessary to have a RRFPR with an SAFC, but it does act as a fail safe if there is any electronic failure????? Do you not see it as this Ricky? Just like to hear your opinion thats all

Click to expand...

the fcd wont let the ecu see any voltage above 4.15v, which is fuel cut.

the safc and fcd use the same map sensor wire to trick the ecu into thinking it is boosting less than it is, and to add more or less fuel.

so the fcd has to be wired in after the safc, the fcd wont physically allow the safc to fuel past fuel cut, as it will not let the voltage go past the magical 4.15v.

the stock ecu can already fuel quite happy upto 4.15v, about 0.85bar, so if the fcd wont let the ecu see past this, and nor will the fuel cut, then it cannot fuel past this, even with the safc fitted, as they both use the same wire.

so in effect you need the rrfpr regardless, the safc is just used so you dont run to rich in the lower boost/rev situations

Is this not just with the HKS FCD? Or is this the case with all FCD's i.e JAM, Greddy etc?

I ran 330's at 1bar on my CT9 and never saw any difference in fuel consumption. I used the same injectors for 1bar on the TD04L which was 222hp.

I have an Apexi that can obviously change the cycle of the injectors on idle etc. So if you have a stock ECU you may see higher fuel consumption I guess.

ChrisW said:

Is this not just with the HKS FCD? Or is this the case with all FCD's i.e JAM, Greddy etc?

Click to expand...

all fcd's mate, as none of them will let the ecu see past fuel cut, so the ecu wont fuel for anything more, whether using a safc or not

Lol so basically I am unable to run a bar safely through my CT9 with just a Jam FCC and SAFC??

sx_turbo said:

lol

also does anyone have the mazda part numbers? and do the mazda injectors work ok? as i have heard that some have a different spray pattern and make the car jerk

Click to expand...

okey dokey...let me use my powers to see what i can get from the crystal ball


99-00 Mazda Miata 240cc - Thin Red Body #195500-4430
94-97 Mazda Miata 254cc - Tan Top #195500-2180
01-05 Mazda Miata NA & TURBO 265cc - Thin Lt. Prple #195500-4060
90-92 MX6/626/Probe Turbo 326cc - Gray Top #195500-2150
89-91 B2600 Truck 326cc - Gray Top #195500-2150
Mazda 323 GTX TURBO 360cc - Black Top #195500-2130
Mazda RX8 420cc - Yellow Body #195500-4450
89-92 Mazda RX-7 NA 440cc - Blue Top #195500-5740
89-91 RX-7 NA 460cc - Red Top #195500-2010
89-91 RX-7 TURBO 550cc - purple top #195500-2020

and yes...i have read the same as you...which indicates that at about 3bar the stock injectors become 330cc basically...which is why some people have ran 220-240bhp with them at maximum duty......however some people switch to the mazda 330cc to achieve this also

BUT it seems from my observations........that the mazda 330cc units will indeed run up to about 260/275bhp at maximum duty cycle at 3 bar fuel pressure.....while the stock ones will max out at the 220/240bhp quoted before at the same 3 bar fuel pressure-------i beleive that the manufacturers build a little leeway into these injectors

now,,,those same 360cc mazda gtx injectors have been flow tested to 380-420cc at 3bar fuel pressure......and i know some1 who ran 250WHP with them on stock fuel pressure (2.3bar)

and what newguye said is also true ---i dont know why it happened,,,but it did in his case....whereby a lot of people plug in 330cc injectors in the stock set up and run fine......maybe an injecotrs was stuck open or something?!?!...i dont know

it is best advised by tuners in general to run injecotrs at 80% duty cycle as a maximum....that is why it might be preferred to run 330cc mazda injectors instead of the stock 295cc injecotrs to achieve 200-220bhp

those guys running around 275bhp should get some 360cc mazda units and not the 330cc ones....440cc will work around that power too..depends on what u car needs really and the tuning ability of tuner....an adjustable rrfpr , ecu/piggy back type, fuel pump type, etc plays a significant part here

the only mazda injectors i know to give "issues" with fule patern are the 550cc from the mazda rotary engine........and this has been attributed to the fuel spray pattern which would obviously differ ---those who have seen a rotary engine or research one will understand why

the general injectors from the normal mazda 4 cylinder engines will/have/are work in our starlets without issues

and let us not forget that the toyota and mazda injectors are generally denso units....

ChrisW said:

Lol so basically I am unable to run a bar safely through my CT9 with just a Jam FCC and SAFC??

Click to expand...

yep pretty much.

you will need to buy a rrfpr aswell.

@ gorgan- that info is brilliant mate.

just one more question, those part numbers you have given, are they all top feed injectors? and are they all a direct fit without having to change any thing?

i beleive the 330cc, 360cc, 460cc and 550cc are direct fit

there are some 324cc which i think need the clips changed--195500-1650

i hope some1 can confirm the 330cc one being direct fits....the other 3 fit for sure (360cc, 460cc and 550cc )

and also its nice to chose the optimal size injector which will do the job u want.....i say this because too big an injecotrs for your application will work, but your fuel economy may suffer if your ecu cant control it properly especially on idle/cruise

i currently using rx7 550's but if i want to upgrade a bit would getting biger ones as a replacement for mazda rx7 work on a starlet?