5e Crank - How much abuse can it take?

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Hi guys,

Nice to be asking a question this time round!

We wanted to know if anyone has any information on what the 5e cranks can handle, I've seen a few 5e's on you tube running 350+ WHP at over 8K RPM but I'm unsure if there using the stock crank, I would imagine so. This also brings into question if it's worth lightening the OEM crank, as obviously less material may cause unwanted stress if it's near it's structural limits in stock guise. What have previous 5e converters discovered?

There are relatively little examples I can find on the net so we wondered if anyone had any hands on experience. GT4's can suffer crank issues after and around 400hp so we wondered what the 5e limits were. There's also a possibility of having 5e cranks made with the 4efte pattern meaning you can still use the 4efte clutch and flywheel for the 5e conversion if it's possible, more on this soon.

If anyone has any info then don't hesitate to post.

Best Regards,

Toby

 

[gaz_turbo1]

been told by few tuners don't need to lighten or knife edge the 5e or 4e cranks as they aint all that heavy and all u will be doing it weakening (sp) it, best to get it balanced, yeah few vids showing big bhp fiqueres and they seem to hold up fine

so are u going 5e then?

 

[riko666]

best people to contact are the guys over at Back Yard Productions in Florida (Steven aka. tr0ublemaker should have their contact details) as they've made some of the higher power 5e Conversions around.

I haven't heard of people using Custom Crankshafts on our engines, ever (apart from Dave's ones) so I presume they're all using a stock crankshaft. Would probably be useful to research the Cruise & HKS cars that put out well over 350whp

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Thanks chaps.

@ Gary - Afraid so there's no replacement for displacement. The increase of airflow into and out of the engine means only one thing. With everything being equal a larger capacity engine will draw in more air on the intake stroke than a smaller one so it makes sense really, hence why it was so popular in Japan.

@ Riko - Good idea hadn't thought of them. Does Dave B do custom crankshafts? I'll have a look in his section. It's also hard to research the Japanese cars as there old now and most were sold years ago.

I thought it may be a good idea to make them with 4e bolt patterns as I know it's quite hard to find a suitable clutch for the 5e with fly. Riko you mentioned using a lightweight fly from a Corsa Turbo (Toyota) and a conventional 5e paddle. I understand that TRD and CAP both make 5e covers and disks, any more?

Thanks lads..

T

 

[riko666]

Any more Clutch Kits do you mean? There's ACT, Spec, Exedy, Centerforce, Clutch Masters, Cusco, SACHS, RAM and a couple more, Flywheels there's Unorthodox Racing, Mueller, Aasco Motorsports, Wepr (I remember seeing from his ooooold Catalogue)

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Thanks Riko, will have a word with BP and see what they come up with. Exedy don't list a 5e setup for the Hyper Range but I'll see what else I can find that's suitable. Pistons and rods are not a problem, low comp 4efte pistons with a thicker head gasket will be fine as obviously there is a longer stroke. The extra capacity in the cylinder will allow for a nice increase of air flow just need to work out the flow rates.

T

 

[fastglanza]

the 5e is a much more high flowing engine...I reckon its safe Toby caz the Jamaicans esp Spi has one running around or over that power figure for a while with stock internals...

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Are these guys mostly on the Terecel forum? Need to take a look when I get a chance. Internal wise everything is sorted we just wanted to determine what the crank can take. Do you know if they lighten them at all, were well aware that you can remove the weight and rotational mass elsewhere but for now we just want to know if others do lighten them at all..

T

 

[Sharagath]

I'm haveing my 5E rebuilded as we speak.

i asked my engine builder to build a engine capible of 250HP safely.

They are goning to weight/balance/lighten/magnaflex the crank shaft.
They only do something if they are sure it will be safe and driveble for long times.
As a safty mesuare they disided to build a cradle around the crank bearings.

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Thanks for the info Danny. Send me an email when you get a chance so we can talk more

T

 

[gaz_turbo1]

what head gasket u going for? yeah people say that there are to many problems with the 5e, but u look at any quick starlet other in japan and they use the 5e,

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

What problems do you hear Gaz? Head gasket won't be mad thickness as the pistons will be low comp around 10cc per dish. I would imagine around 1.8mm for a expected CR of 8:1, we'll wait and see what our engineer recommends once the block is bored and he has everything in his hands to work out the specs.

If you use normal CR 5e pistons then you would need to use a pretty thick head gasket as the CR would be too high for big boost applications, the same can be said for normal CR 4e pistons. Why did Cruise make specific 5e pistons with extremely thick gaskets (2.6mm!!!) to lower the CR when owners could of simply used a low comp 4e piston. It's better to lower the CR with a piston than a head gasket so I wonder what there reasoning was.

If there are no differences between 4e/5e pistons except for compression then why didn't they consider using a lower comp variant with a thinner head gasket? Time to learn Japanese!

T

 

[Sharagath]

What problems do you hear Gaz? Head gasket won't be mad thickness as the pistons will be low comp around 10cc per dish. I would imagine around 1.8mm for a expected CR of 8:1, we'll wait and see what our engineer recommends once the block is bored and he has everything in his hands to work out the specs.

If you use normal CR 5e pistons then you would need to use a pretty thick head gasket as the CR would be too high for big boost applications, the same can be said for normal CR 4e pistons. Why did Cruise make specific 5e pistons with extremely thick gaskets (2.6mm!!!) to lower the CR when owners could of simply used a low comp 4e piston. It's better to lower the CR with a piston than a head gasket so I wonder what there reasoning was.

If there are no differences between 4e/5e pistons except for compression then why didn't they consider using a lower comp variant with a thinner head gasket? Time to learn Japanese!

T

what i have heard is that there could be head problems when you juse a 5E head, but also oil issues(pressure/leak/temp) and cooling.


i have had custom pistons and rod made by carillo as fas as i know, with a 1,2mm head gasket(calculated pistons to that size)

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Were using a 4efte head so that should alleviate any issues there, you need to make a suitable breather with the 5e head as well. You can use the sump from the 4efte as well which makes life easier.

Dan what CR are your pistons, I would imagine low comp as the head gasket is relatively thin unless your using a compression plate?

Were running an oil cooler with thermostat, do you know in detail what oil related issues people are having? We have to be careful with turbo oil pressure as it's ball bearing which requires less than a conventional journal bearing. We also have a baffled sump but am interested to know what pressure ralted problems they have. I would assume lack of oil pressure and possibly different oil pumps?

T

 

[riko666]

the heads are identical, there's no issues with 5e it's just myths. As for the Sumps, it'd be best for a higher power application to go with a 5e Sump as it has a bigger capacity which should prove very beneficial to cooling as the heat of the engine will be dispersed in a greater amount of oil

 

[gaz_turbo1]

not problems just things like starter motor, clutch, flywheel,
i am using my 4e head and sump as it has the oil return already on it,

 

[gaz_turbo1]

and u got to drill and tap 3 holes for the oil filter housing

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

I see what your saying with the sump Riko but an oil cooler will sort that with a good thermostat, as long as you free up the main oil galleries then I can't see it being a problem. Looking at the Cruise pistons close up they are dished quite a bit, amybe they made the gaskets for those who couldn't afford the pistons.

Anyhow the pistons are identical across the 5e/4e the only difference is the rod length as there is a longer stroke on the 5e. Gaz what pistons are you using?

T

 

[dan_ep82]

toby why dont u get your crank heat treated? adds about 30% extra strengh i belive. i am running one in my gt-four!

dan

 

[riko666]

I suppose - but add the 5e sump and you go one better - get a Baffled one from Zep Racing and you're prepared for the track. And you have to be sure not to bore out the oil galleries too much or you're just not going to get the right sort of oil pressure.

And how are the pistons the same - piston/compression height and diameter I hope? As there's huge differences from 4efte, 4efe, 5efe and 5efhe pistons, though you most probably know that. Dan, heat treatments don't make the Crankshaft "stronger" perse', it just makes the surface harder wearing - if anything the crankshaft would become more brittle unless it's stress relieved too (reheated again after the hardening process to not as high a temperature). My word, my university lectures actually make some sense now