Options for Wasted Spark / Coil On Plug

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sdutton007

Member +
Hi guys,

What are the main options for uprating the ignition components? Ideally, I would use Coil-On-Plug but, as I understand it, this will be far more expensive than wasted spark for a very small gain.

One of my mates has a Vauxhall coil pack, and I know that some people use the coil pack from a 4A-GZE or Lancer Evo.

Are any of these systems direct fitment for the spark plugs or do they all require modification?

Are there any Toyota COP or Wasted Spark systems that will work? (other than the californian 5E which apparently isn't compatible with 4EFTE cams and needs a crank trigger and different oil pump)

Lastly, am I correct in thinking that I can take the dizzy cap off but leave the Cam Position Sensor in which will be enough to run a wasted spark or COP system?

What, realistically, are the best options in terms of price/performance for running over 300BHP at high-boost and high-RPM?

Many thanks!
 
S

sdutton007

Member +
I just found a thread on here that says you can use the COPs from either a Honda Civic Type R or a "2-zzze g".

Can anyone tell me if these fit without modification (other than welding 4 nuts to the rocker cover) ??? Thanks
 
Stu-

Stu-

Member +
I've completed this conversion for people quite a few times now. The coils you need are from a 2zzge but what out as there are two different part numbers - 90919-02238 which fit fine and 90919-02238 which have a slightly larger diameter and need to be shaved/machined down to fit down the spark plug tubes. You'll need to weld on some lugs to the rocker cover to fix the coils down.

You can also use coils from a 1jz or 1mzfe but I personally haven't used these yet as 2zz units are reasonably easy to obtain and relatively cheap.

Wiring wise I'm assuming you have an aftermarket ecu. They can be made to run on standard ignition but the setup is quite difficult and additional circuits are required to divide the ignition drive spark event signals. With an aftermarket ecu you can run the COP's as either wasted spark or direct ignition (I've done both several times). I prefer to run direct ignition where possible as it gives you the opportunity to run cyclic idle/antilag if your ecu is capable.

I've got a few photos of the rocker cover lugs if you need an idea on how to do it.
 
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S

sdutton007

Member +
Stu- said:
I've completed this conversion for people quite a few times now. The coils you need are from a 2zzge but what out as there are two different part numbers - 90919-02238 which fit fine and 90919-02238 which have a slightly larger diameter and need to be shaved/machined down to fit down the spark plug tubes. You'll need to weld on some lugs to the rocker cover to fix the coils down.

You can also use coils from a 1jz or 1mzfe but I personally haven't used these yet as 2zz units are reasonably easy to obtain and relatively cheap.

Wiring wise I'm assuming you have an aftermarket ecu. They can be made to run on standard ignition but the setup is quite difficult and additional circuits are required to divide the ignition drive spark event signals. With an aftermarket ecu you can run the COP's as either wasted spark or direct ignition (I've done both several times). I prefer to run direct ignition where possible as it gives you the opportunity to run cyclic idle/antilag if your ecu is capable.

I've got a few photos of the rocker cover lugs if you need an idea on how to do it.
Click to expand...

That's great thanks!

According to Wikipedia, the 2Z-ZGE engine is fitted to these cars:
Toyota Celica SS-II (Japan, 187 hp/190 PS)
Toyota Celica GT-S (USA, 180 hp)
Toyota Celica 190/T-Sport (UK, 189 hp)
Toyota Corolla Sportivo (Australia, 189 hp (141 kW)/180 Nm)
Toyota Corolla TS (Europe, (189 hp/192 PS))
Toyota Corolla Compressor (Europe, supercharged, 222 hp/225 PS)
Toyota Corolla XRS (USA, 164/170 hp)
Toyota Corolla Fielder Z Aero Tourer (Japan, 187 hp/190 PS)
Toyota Corolla Runx Z Aero Tourer (Japan, 187 hp/190 PS)
Toyota Corolla RunX RSi (South Africa, 141 kW/180 Nm)
Toyota Matrix XRS (USA, 164-180 hp)[5]
Pontiac Vibe GT (USA, 164-180 hp)
WiLL VS 1.8
Lotus Elise (North America/UK, 190 hp)[8]
Lotus Exige (US/UK, 190 hp NA & 243 hp supercharged)[9][10]
Lotus 2-Eleven (US/UK, supercharged, 252 hp)

Since many of these cars aren't available in the UK, it looks to me like the best bet is a Corolla T-Sport or a Celica T-Sport. Is this correct?

How can I tell the difference between the 2 different types? And what is the other part number (both part numbers above are the same)? Are these the correct ones: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00NBRVWHE

I will be getting a Haltech Platinum Sport 1000 ECU which is capable of "direct fire ignition for engines up to 4 cylinders". I was under the impression that wasted spark offers no advantage over direct ignition?

Thanks again!
 
S

sdutton007

Member +
Also, what are the limits of these coil packs? Can they cope with over 2bar boost and 450bhp?
 
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goldenvtr

goldenvtr

Member +
i have lexus is200 coils, i did have to get spark plug tip extenders though: dont have a recent pic but this was during the wiring of the ecu:



i have since tapped the rocker and used allen bolts to hold them down
and here shows the alloy plate i made to cover the dixxy hole (just used the bolt hols and some silicone) and my mx5 becasue racecar lol

 
goldenvtr

goldenvtr

Member +
oh and its running on a link g3 ecu in wasted spark, but ive also had the emanage ultimate running the same coils... took bloody ages to figurer wiring out but its possable
 
Stu-

Stu-

Member +
Sorry, 90919-02238 is the part number of the coils that fit, 90919-02239 is the ones that need shaving down.

Yes the Runx Corolla is the model I usually get them from - ZZE123 series chassis.

Any ecu with 4 igntion channels on a 4cyl should be able to run direct ignition. I've wired these up using Haltech, MS and Link (G3, G4, G4+) so far - all have worked great. Haven't pushed 450hp but 20psi with a Turbonetics 450hp T3/T4 and no sign of any spark issues. Another coil option is using AEM smart coils or Bosch HEC715's although they are not coil on plug and need to be mounted somewhere - this is what I have on my 4agte.

You will still need the dizzy in place as the ecu identifies engine position using the 24tooth and sync triggers from the dizzy, but you can take the rotor/cap away and make a blanking cover. The alternative is setup a crank wheel trigger.

Shows the small lugs machined to weld to the cover.
img_9951.jpg


Any the lugs welded on and primered.
img_9952.jpg


Fitted. Owner wanted the cover painted to match the car
img_9970.jpg
 
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sdutton007

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That's great! Thanks for all the information! Rep added!

This is my favourite 4E Coil On Plug rocker cover (which I've just realised is one of Stu's):
img2631w.jpg


Thanks again! :)
 
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Stu-

Stu-

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Haha yeah that's Garreths 5efte "The Angry Smurf"


I tidied it up a bit more from when that photo was taken - will try dig some more recent photos out. That car should be with Garreth in Perth this week
 
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