Strange fuel/ignition Cut

suzieboy

Fresh Recruit
Hi gents

Need some assistance. Ive got a built bottom end 5e ,550cc injectors with a gt30 managed by E-Manage ultimate.
Ive been gettin this fuel cut lately. No check engine light no knock. car drives fine but occasional i get some sort of fuel cut at around 4k rpm for 10 sec and the the power comes back on. Sometime i wont be on boost at all an i get this fuel cut. AFR are ok. the car doesn't break up. just this random fuel cut.
Changed fuel pump
changed FPR
Changed king lead
Changed fuel filter
The emanage shows voltage from the map sensor.

any ideas what could be possibly wrong? thanks.

 

suzieboy

Fresh Recruit
There is pressure still in the line. I checked it on the dyno. Injectors like they dont open.

So i got an opinion that the high imp rx7 550cc injector my be tripping with the emanage ultimate.

Theoretically the emu could only support injectors that are 150% the stock size. Stock starlet injectors are 295cc. Therefore the max that is recommended is 442.5cc

Practically people are using over 442cc and getting away with it i assume. Seems like a hit and miss.

Do i need an inject box/attachment to solve this issue?

I would try another set of high imp injectors and report back.
 

SKINY

Lifer
Going down the injector route, is there an injector solenoid on these cars ? I know on gt-fours there is one and sometimes they go bad ?
 
i've ran mazda gtx 360cc and madza rx7 460cc injectors on emu over the past decade which were 99.9% good-----on the odd 0.1% occasion i'd get a slight judder at low rpm when the car was cold (not yet to operating temperature) which would last all of a split second, felt like a quick "miss". for the most part, i was able to sort this out by a slight adjustment in the fuel and ignition map as it seems the stock ecu and emu were having a "fight" at that point in the map. These" old style" injectors with a single hole/port don't atomize fuel as well as the newer style injectors.

since last year, i run subaru 565cc subaru injectors with emu, no issues at all...the subaru injectors are much nicer spray/atomization pattern (12 holes i think) and apparently easier to tune too, the drive on and off throttle is very smooth

my emu has had the additional injector black box connected since it was installed in 2007/2008
 

Rev

Member +
The older black box was hks fcon piggyback but it runs 550cc low impedance at stock fuel pump pressure which gives fueling of 477.37 cc injectors ( both the hks 550cc and hks480cc matched the starlet inj lag etc,) plus it had a gcc to trim down to 420cc if needed.
The electrical load is huge with larger injectors especially if fuel pressure is too high as they work harder and sometimes beyond there limits trying to stay closed to get the right AFR.
I really like @ gorgan's solution of a modern injector that is easy to control at idle and is capable at max torque fueling.

I would add I have heard some subaru injectors are limited on max. boost probably the smaller pinitle adds to back pressure? Also if you are lifting the rev limit substantially injectors have to be considered for that situation also.
 
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suzieboy

Fresh Recruit
Haven't gotten another set of injectors. Mind you when the car was initially tuned to 400hp i wasnt having any issues with the same injectors.
 
The older black box was hks fcon piggyback but it runs 550cc low impedance at stock fuel pump pressure which gives fueling of 477.37 cc injectors ( both the hks 550cc and hks480cc matched the starlet inj lag etc,) plus it had a gcc to trim down to 420cc if needed.
The electrical load is huge with larger injectors especially if fuel pressure is too high as they work harder and sometimes beyond there limits trying to stay closed to get the right AFR.
I really like @ gorgan's solution of a modern injector that is easy to control at idle and is capable at max torque fueling.

I would add I have heard some subaru injectors are limited on max. boost probably the smaller pinitle adds to back pressure? Also if you are lifting the rev limit substantially injectors have to be considered for that situation also.
this is the reason i also run a genuine walbro fuel pump,,,given the age of our wiring, it flow is comparably better for the amperage it draws based on some high flow aftermarket fuel pump comparisons i found online
my initial fear was the noisy reviews i've read about, but i must admit my walbro pump is not that noisy----but that may be due to the fact my gas tank is usually kept 1/4 and full
with subaru 565 or 440cc injectors, i think they would satisfy the fuel needs of maybe 90%/95% of starlet projects out there.... unless going for some insane power levels
 

suzieboy

Fresh Recruit
Update: see attached log. So i realize the injector inputs are at 0%. but even before it happens fluctuates to 100%. Could it be electrical?
 

Attachments

isn't your car on the stock rev limiter at that rpm?....is the stock rev limiter a fuel or ignition cut?--i can't remember at the moment
 

Rev

Member +
____
Do i need an inject box/attachment to solve this issue?

I would try another set of high imp injectors and report back.
> Usually no injector box needed for actual high imp injectors.Maybe other benefits like balancing injector s not sure did check this out once and was told resistors are special quality for injectors.

> Eliminating the possibility of an electrical shorting injector by testing with another set sounds good.
My only question for some one would be is the time pause you mention typical for injector drivers resetting
or is the time pause more typical of limp mode being triggered?
 
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suzieboy

Fresh Recruit
On the emanage when it happens, injector duty cycle drops to 0%. So the emanage is receiving a 0% input from stock ecu. I've tried different ecu and distributors. same result.
What could trigger stock ecu to 0% duty cycle aka fuel cut or injector driver resetting? boostcut voltage is clamped properly keep in mind and there is no check light when it happens
 

suzieboy

Fresh Recruit
Texx wrote an interesting post here about TPS. My TPS have been acting strange. Can this be the cause by shorting of the IDL at open throttle?

The TPS at position 1 or the IDL and E2 terminals of the ECU shorted when the throttle plate is open more than 1.5°, the ECU will cut fuel once the engine speed reaches 2000rpm and resume fuel delivery after the engine speed has dropped below 1600rpm. When the engine appears to have a rev limiter set at 2000rpm it's likely the IDL terminal of the ECU is shorted to ground somewhere.
http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/commun...ottle-position-sensor-failure-symptoms.89021/
 

SKINY

Lifer
That makes a bit of sense of it all now mate, have you reset the TPS or swapped with a known working unit ?
Also them e-manage ECU,s I've heard a lot of stories of them going bad, losing tunes etc, more recently local member Ian,s e-manage packed in
 

Rev

Member +
x2 worth considering common emanageU issues.
You mention a 4000rpm issue may be three cases to consider-

1 Short triggers TPS 1 it would cut fuel above 2000 ( the TP1 short Texx describes )
2 If poor tps setting can effect as well .
3 The third situation is intermittent TPS disconnect.
With manual TPS disconnected I read can give half throttle.
TPS2 on boost case 4000rpm fuel reduction triggering limp mode ?
The thing is the gt30 is pretty big turbo presumably still gradual very variable boosting even at 4k I thought the stock ecu goes open loop when boost arrives so input would be from the emanage then?
 
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suzieboy

Fresh Recruit
x2 worth considering common emanageU issues.
You mention a 4000rpm issue may be three cases to consider-

1 Short triggers TPS 1 it would cut fuel above 2000 ( the TP1 short Texx describes )
2 If poor tps setting can effect as well .
3 The third situation is intermittent TPS disconnect.
With manual TPS disconnected I read can give half throttle.
TPS2 on boost case 4000rpm fuel reduction triggering limp mode ?
The thing is the gt30 is pretty big turbo presumably still gradual very variable boosting even at 4k I thought the stock ecu goes open loop when boost arrives so input would be from the emanage then?
Thanks Rev I did also Re-collab the TPS.
Gt30 is fairly big but when the boost comes in it takes off.

Just to update:
So i have gotten a set of stock injectors. I installed them and the same thing happened. Injector cut out. I was about to Entirely take the emanage out I was getting frustrated.
BUT...
It hit me. last year when i bought the car. It was working. the first thing i did unknowingly was update the emanage firmware from what it was to the latest version 2.33.

So this weekend i decided to use an older firmware version (1.06) out of curiosity. Created a fresh map.
To my surprise the car started working perfectly again! :)
I can get into it with no fuel cut what so ever.
It idles better. it fuels better.
I trashed it abit! no issues what so ever.:D

Should i update the firmware an test to see if it this was the actual fix? or leave as is?

Any has any experience with the emu firmware?
 

SKINY

Lifer
That's a result mate :) I would just let it be now but curious to know if it was causing your issues
 

Rev

Member +
Looking good! Sticking with the firmware that works and testing its stability over a longer period makes sense.
 
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