5e Crank - How much abuse can it take?

T

Toby@ToyTuning.com

Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
Yeah you can always use a thicker head g down the line or mod the chambers, I would go with low comp pistons to start with.

@ Danny - The low comp pistons Wiseco make for the Starlets, the one's sold on ebay with rods are 10cc dished as well. You can ask for what you want but this seems to be a fairly standard figure across the board, or at least what most seem to go for..

T
 
goldenvtr

goldenvtr

Member +
Thanks Toby, I'm pretty sure thats what he'll be sending me. i went for 74.5mm
Im presuming modding the chamber is not something you can DIY, or if it is how can you mesure the adjustments you make to the inside of the head, to show its even?
 
G

gaz_turbo1

Guest
they test the voloume size of the chamber, normally use a liquid measureing tool and see how much they can put in chamber and they adjust them to make sure all are exact same size

dan where u getting ur pistons from?
 
HYBRID

HYBRID

Super Moderator <a href="http://www.toyotagtturbo.
Toby said:
@ Kon - I should have said ours as this is what it worked out to be if you remember our conversation over U2U. Ross 10cc drop with a 1.2 hg worked out a 7.78:1 or near enough, anyhow it won't be as low as the figure quoted in the sixes..

T
Click to expand...


oh .. understood then man :) yeah i agree..

as for andy, his 1st gasket was a disgrace.. looked like 2 stock gaskets with a metal plate inbetween them... not 1/2 decent..

after those events i have no idea.. but that engine was far from well setup.. weither it was a bad choice of parts, or miscalculation i have no idea.. but still the fact remains to date it blew up 4 times in all...
 
T

Toby@ToyTuning.com

Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
Was it that many? I wish he was still around so we could probe! Like you said I also don't think a stupidly thick head gasket is wise regardless of material, it's better to alter the pistons/ and or the chambers pending on what you want from the engine. Hopefully Danny should have a revised calculator with a few different specs although don't take this to the grave as there estimates..

T
 
HYBRID

HYBRID

Super Moderator <a href="http://www.toyotagtturbo.
ur better off talking to slostar.. hes got an actual calculator tobs..

well it blew 2 times for andrew & 2 times for adam.... 2+2=4 lmao :D :p kidding
 
S

Sharagath

Member +
I have made an other version
http://home.tiscali.nl/paseo_style/turbo/projecten/test/test11.html
do a ctrl+F5 after the page is loaded.

these are the specs i calculated with, please feel free to give corrections and input on these specs.

Low comp. pistons extra cc give a 10cc
Code: 
4E-FTE
            bore = (74)
            stroke = (77.4)
            comp = (8.2)
            head = (1)
5E-FE gen1      
            bore = (74)
            stroke = (87)
            comp = (9.4)
            head = (1)
5E-FE gen2 
            bore = (74)
            stroke = (87)
            comp = (9.8)
            head = (0.5)



Toby said:
Was it that many? I wish he was still around so we could probe! Like you said I also don't think a stupidly thick head gasket is wise regardless of material, it's better to alter the pistons/ and or the chambers pending on what you want from the engine. Hopefully Danny should have a revised calculator with a few different specs although don't take this to the grave as there estimates..

T
Click to expand...
 
G

gorganl2000

Lifer
hey toby or anyone else...if u need your CR estimated......i maybe able to help

@Sharagath---your calculator need to take account of the different cc drops/increases in pistons (similar to how the H/gasket section is), else it may be well incorrect

as i've discovered, changed in piston cc on my "calculator" seem to afftect CR much more than changes in Headgasket thickness
 
S

Sharagath

Member +
gorganl2000 said:
hey toby or anyone else...if u need your CR estimated......i maybe able to help

@Sharagath---your calculator need to take account of the different cc drops/increases in pistons (similar to how the H/gasket section is), else it may be well incorrect

as i've discovered, changed in piston cc on my "calculator" seem to afftect CR much more than changes in Headgasket thickness
Click to expand...

the calculator is calculating with 2 kind of pistons
low and stock
low ads an extra 10cc to the cumbustion chamber
stock ads 0 extra.

Toby told previus that low compression pistons ads a 10cc extra.

you can select 2 different pistons.
maby you have the old version
press crtl+f5 when page is loaded.
 
G

gorganl2000

Lifer
ok sharagath.....let me explain myself better
your sheet is working great..........but is a little bit limited

suppose someone had pistons with 3cc or 5cc or 7cc drop or a 5cc increase.......then they could not get an accurate calculation

even here.a lot of guys shave pistons.......
i've kind of devised something to take account of that too

still nice work on your part....respect
 
T

Toby@ToyTuning.com

Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
Yeah he's just making it for those that will be running a 5e with low comp pistons, the 10cc drop is againest each piston. This was the example I gave him it doesn't take into account anything between stock and 10cc lower comp :)

T
 
S

Sharagath

Member +
@gorganl2000
i will adjust that(not that big of a job)
i also will make a universal one, with plain input fields.

@Toby
It fist was a excel sheet for my own project to get a calculation, i couldn't find one on the net so i tried to make it my self.

with this base i can upgrade it easely
Give me som einput on what you prefure and i would look in to the possebility.
 
H

Harvey

Member +
Ok, so i was thinking about this today, and did a few calculations:

4EFTE = 1331cc, so over 4 pistons thats 332.75cc per cylinder.

so with a 8.2cr, 332.75/8.2 = 40.58

So the volume of the piston dish/gap+ combustion chamber is 40.58cc

So this is where the 5E comes in.#

Can anyone comfirm/deny the 4EFTE piston in the 5E sits in the same position relative to the top of block as it does in the 4E?

If this is the case then taking chamber as 40.58, 5E is 1497cc.

1497/4 = 374.25

374.25/40.58 = 9.22 CR (Ouch).

in theory a 2.0mm gasket would add 1mm, so taking vol = 0.1x (Pi*(7.4/2)^2) = 4.3cc

374.25/44.88 = 8.34

Would need to look at losing about 4cc on 4EFTE pistons to attain the CR i want.

What sort of limits are there on the combustion chambe does anyone know? is 4cc achievable?
 
T

Toby@ToyTuning.com

Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
It would be good to speak with these Malta lads who are modifying there chambers to see how much material they are removing and at what ratios. There's nothing to stop you going for a little chamber work, a slightly lower comp piston and a slightly thicker head gasket but obviously depends on what CR you want to achieve.

In essence if you are allowing more air in (essentially an engine is a big air pump) then you also need to be able to exhaust the gases. One consideration is the valves as it's all very well increasing the chamber volume but you have to be able to squeeze the extra amount in the first place, same can be said with the inlet manifold and throttle body as well as the flow characteristics will be second to none..

T
 
H

Harvey

Member +
Yes i am considering buying a 4EFTE piston and fitting to my 5E block next to a 5E piston to see how they compare but would be almost impossible to measure i think as we would be talking about a tiny dimension!
 
goldenvtr

goldenvtr

Member +
Im pretty sure from when i took my 5e apart, the out part of the piston sit flush witht he block and the crown raised out above.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top