5e Crank - How much abuse can it take?

[artmull]

BYP in Florida uses the standard 5EFHE CR of 9.8:1 on a all standard internal 5EFHE which is daily driven at 17PSI and at the track with C16 race gas 22PSI. At 22PSI with the race gas this engine makes 298WHP. On the two 5EFHES with forged pistons, one uses Pauter rods and the other uses Carillo rods with both engines running 9.0:1 CR.
The engine with the Carillo rods makes 311WHP at 24PSI on race gas and the engine with the Pauter rods makes 363WHP at 28PSI on race gas and this engine uses a pair of Web cams. The two forged engines have been balanced to 0 and they both use Aasco 200mm aluminium flywheels and ACT clutch kits without any problems. The 311WHP engine is daily driven on 93 Octane pump gas at 20PSI and the 363WHP engine has been run at 30PSI without any problems. The headgasket being used is the Toyota OEM factory head gasket as used on a '92 Paseo with new factory head bolts. All 3 cars are using 4EFTE ECU/distributor/coil & ignitor plus eManage Blue for the 298WHP & 311WHP cars and the Ultimate for the 363WHP car. All three cars rev to 7300RPM. The factory cranks are all standard not lightened or knife edged but balanced on the two higher horsepower cars. If the turbo Mini Metro back in the day used 9.0:1 CR I cannot see why with your better quality gas why you guys are scared of using this CR. If you are that worried you can also use water/methonol injection. It has been done guys and it works perfectly with proper professional tuning on the rolling road/dyno.

 

[goldenvtr]

BYP in Florida uses the standard 5EFHE CR of 9.8:1 on a all standard internal 5EFHE which is daily driven at 17PSI and at the track with C16 race gas 22PSI. At 22PSI with the race gas this engine makes 298WHP. On the two 5EFHES with forged pistons, one uses Pauter rods and the other uses Carillo rods with both engines running 9.0:1 CR.
The engine with the Carillo rods makes 311WHP at 24PSI on race gas and the engine with the Pauter rods makes 363WHP at 28PSI on race gas and this engine uses a pair of Web cams. The two forged engines have been balanced to 0 and they both use Aasco 200mm aluminium flywheels and ACT clutch kits without any problems. The 311WHP engine is daily driven on 93 Octane pump gas at 20PSI and the 363WHP engine has been run at 30PSI without any problems. The headgasket being used is the Toyota OEM factory head gasket as used on a '92 Paseo with new factory head bolts. All 3 cars are using 4EFTE ECU/distributor/coil & ignitor plus eManage Blue for the 298WHP & 311WHP cars and the Ultimate for the 363WHP car. All three cars rev to 7300RPM. The factory cranks are all standard not lightened or knife edged but balanced on the two higher horsepower cars. If the turbo Mini Metro back in the day used 9.0:1 CR I cannot see why with your better quality gas why you guys are scared of using this CR. If you are that worried you can also use water/methonol injection. It has been done guys and it works perfectly with proper professional tuning on the rolling road/dyno.

Thats an inspiering read
ive bascially got my setup sorted so whatever CR i get, thats it,
1.2mm metal head gasket, low comp wiseco pistons and pauter rods.
Oh and i have emanage blue to run it all
and i want to run whatever my turbo can push out which i always thought was 1.4bar but have just read 1.7 maybe possable without dropping efficiency

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

@ Artmull - Indeed interesting read. Putting high octane race gas out of the equation for a minute does the car with the Pauter rods run 30psi on 93 Octane without any detonation at all? What else is he using, water injection, nos, anything to change the air density?

I want to determine if there running a CR of 9:1 at 30psi on 93Octane with pretty much stock heads, all stock components obviously minus the rods and pistons. We can easily use 98Octane here from the tap but it's important to know what other variables there are and what else there doing.

You also mentioned there using 1.2mm head gaskets, but, there CR's are slightly lower. Have they lowered the CR a little using lower comp pistons or have they ported the cylinder chambers? Either way there lowering the CR a little so it would be nice to know all specs.

C16 is all good and well due to the increased amount of oxygen but I want to compare your pump gas results only, thanks for the time on this

T

 

[Sharagath]

interesting read,

i want to avoid using racing fuel
we have a good quality 98ron over here in the Netherlands.

i think the build my 5e on a 8:1 CR, for a 250whp dailydrive(can been put at much more)

i have adjusted the calculator, made a universal one(needs still some adjustments)
http://home.tiscali.nl/paseo_style/turbo/projecten/test/splitscreen11.html

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

I'm not sure whats up with the calc. We calculated a 4efte on 1.2mm head/g and low comp pistons (10cc drop) to be around 7.8:1. Hybrid quoted 7.4:1 and the calc claims 6.8:1?

T

 

[Sharagath]

I'm not sure whats up with the calc. We calculated a 4efte on 1.2mm head/g and low comp pistons (10cc drop) to be around 7.8:1. Hybrid quoted 7.4:1 and the calc claims 6.8:1?

T

that's not good i see. i will look into it.
as i see it i don't see directly what it could be.
i put the extra cc into the combustion camber, maby it should be on a different spot in the formula.

 

[Harvey]

Well, going back to by calculation, a stock 4EFTE has a compressed volume of about 40.5cc, so a 10cc piston drop would be 50.5.

332.75/50.5 = 6.59 CR !!!!

And thats before factoring in the thicer gasket! Altho by time you have skimmed the head and cleaned the block you are probably breaking even there anyway...

 

[artmull]

@ Artmull - Indeed interesting read. Putting high octane race gas out of the equation for a minute does the car with the Pauter rods run 30psi on 93 Octane without any detonation at all? What else is he using, water injection, nos, anything to change the air density?

I want to determine if there running a CR of 9:1 at 30psi on 93Octane with pretty much stock heads, all stock components obviously minus the rods and pistons. We can easily use 98Octane here from the tap but it's important to know what other variables there are and what else there doing.

You also mentioned there using 1.2mm head gaskets, but, there CR's are slightly lower. Have they lowered the CR a little using lower comp pistons or have they ported the cylinder chambers? Either way there lowering the CR a little so it would be nice to know all specs.

C16 is all good and well due to the increased amount of oxygen but I want to compare your pump gas results only, thanks for the time on this

T

30PSI was used with the C16 race gas. Man if we could obtain 98RON pump gas we would be running 24PSI every day. On the 311 & 363 HP cars the standard 5EFHE cylinder head is used with standard size valves plus the port and polish. On the 363HP car Web cams valve springs and retainers were used with the Web camshafts with the following cam specs:
At 50 thou lift Actual duration: Intake 218 degrees 8.55 mm lift
Exhaust 225 degrees 8.89 mm lift
Valve clearances exhaust 8 to 10 thou
intake 6 to 8 thou

On both cars the ACIS intake manifold is used with all 8 runners open and a larger throttle body (4AGE or 3SGE) plus adjustable FPR. The 311HP car uses 550cc injectors and the 363HP car uses 850cc injectors. Both cars use a Master Power T3 turbo and I have listed the specs of this turbo in a previous thread. Custom top mounted turbo manifold made with schedule 40 steam pipe with 1.5 internal diameter pipes and Tial external wastegates. 3 inch downpipes and 3 inch exhaust systems. I have the same schedule 40 steam exhaust manifold on my Corolla for over 7 years now and it has never cracked.

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Yeah it's a bloody strong material that's for sure. On 98 octane can you ask what compression they would consider following on from the same specs you have given us, not C16 just 98 octane

Also what duty cycle is he getting with 850cc injectors and what are they from?

Thanks,

T

 

[artmull]

Yeah it's a bloody strong material that's for sure. On 98 octane can you ask what compression they would consider following on from the same specs you have given us, not C16 just 98 octane

Also what duty cycle is he getting with 850cc injectors and what are they from?

Thanks,

T

For 98RON Octane you can safely use 9.0:1 CR but 8.5:1 CR will work as well. Our problem here is a variable gas quality because although most stations sell 93RON all 93 is not 93 if you know what I mean. The injectors are the same RC (Siemens) I have fitted to my Corolla on a custom fuel rail.
The duty cycle is 65 per cent and the car idles at 900-1000RPM smoothly

 

[HYBRID]

what af's are u running on full boost artmull?

we have the same crap petrol as u guys.. well mroe or less. i guess if it ever would be the same from one pump to another it would be a miracle ...

good to see u onsite.. ur advice in many situations was needed badly man!

kon

 

[artmull]

what af's are u running on full boost artmull?

we have the same crap petrol as u guys.. well mroe or less. i guess if it ever would be the same from one pump to another it would be a miracle ...

good to see u onsite.. ur advice in many situations was needed badly man!

kon

Kon the AFR'S 12.2 no leaner

 

[artmull]

what af's are u running on full boost artmull?

we have the same crap petrol as u guys.. well mroe or less. i guess if it ever would be the same from one pump to another it would be a miracle ...

good to see u onsite.. ur advice in many situations was needed badly man!

kon

I hope you can see this. This is an EL31 fitted with a turbo 4AGZE which now makes 406WHP at 30PSI. I hope you can see the dyno chart.


http://board.tercelonline.com/viewthread.php?tid=34110#pid360311

 

[Adam_Glanza]

thats a lovely car man engine looks mint and its a huge turbo

 

[Sharagath]

with some help i have improved both calculators.
link

Maby it is a good help.

 

[gaz_turbo1]

that top calculator is covered up by the bottom one,
have used the bottom one but what do i put in under new parts PISTONS CC?
i am using low comp pistons on a 5e

 

[Sharagath]

that top calculator is covered up by the bottom one,
have used the bottom one but what do i put in under new parts PISTONS CC?
i am using low comp pistons on a 5e

according to the info i got from Toby they should be set at 10

i see there is a bug in the splitscreen settings with lower screen resolutions(I build it on a 1920x1200 on firefox).
both calaculators apart.
link1
link2

 

[HYBRID]

I hope you can see this. This is an EL31 fitted with a turbo 4AGZE which now makes 406WHP at 30PSI. I hope you can see the dyno chart.


http://board.tercelonline.com/viewthread.php?tid=34110#pid360311

holy fuck thats hi revving lol.. man with the cr the 4agze has its impressive to say the least!!

interesting though, as its kept pretty rich all through the rev range.. ir starts in 10s & stays in 12s.. well i understand about not wanting it leaner than 12.2 which makes sense.. no point in going to close to the limit.. but how come the choice to start in 10s?

is it to keep the engine colder down low? which would make sense in terms of producing power & i doubt it would ever be caught that low in the rev range..

mind u its still one fucking amazing tune!!
very nice!!
kon

 

[Aga]

dont really care bout off boost driving, 2bar on a gt2876 should work well with low comp,
not sure how good that calculator is as some one with a 4e with low comp pistons and a 1.2 which a few people have are running 6.8:1 ????????????

heh, we just removed the 2876 from a 5efte... terrible turbo for that engine

 

[gaz_turbo1]

harry runs 11's so it can't be that bad, why did you remove what reason?