Adjustable Rear anti role bar question
- Thread starter jamesbaa
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Dave@TM-developments.com
Trader
Whitleine advise the middle setting as best for road use
panhard rod does nothing for handling..
braces are excellent for keeping the car nice and tight, but it's more the front swaybar and springs/shocks that determines the adjustable swaybar positions.
i prefer a starlet to have a bit of oversteer rather than understeer.
so if the car has a front swaybar , either stock or aftermarket , i set the rear swaybars on the hardest setting..
personal prefrence really , just try the different settings to see...
put it in the middle holes for a week first , then change it to the inner holes and see the difference , and make your choice from that..
braces are excellent for keeping the car nice and tight, but it's more the front swaybar and springs/shocks that determines the adjustable swaybar positions.
i prefer a starlet to have a bit of oversteer rather than understeer.
so if the car has a front swaybar , either stock or aftermarket , i set the rear swaybars on the hardest setting..
personal prefrence really , just try the different settings to see...
put it in the middle holes for a week first , then change it to the inner holes and see the difference , and make your choice from that..
hardcoreep
Member +
Beg to differ. The panhard rod does:
a)keep the car traking right when slammed to the ground. When you have coilovers you can drop the car below the spring seat level of a standard damper set-up. I've run my car down to 2.5inches. From 1-1.5 inches you're not going to throw out the rear. Below that its a must.
b)It stabilizes the rear under braking as the stock rod, which is hollow, has a tendency to 'dance'. It quite obvious to me when I'm not running my panhard rod. You can feel the difference.
I prefer neutral handling because this allows the car to use all four tyres for traction. I use the middle setting for the both track and circuit, but I have the 22mm front bar as well. The fixed 20mm worked fine with the stock front bar and the best average compromise.
the adjustable panhard rod is used to realign the rear axle slightly once the car is lowered,to stop oversised wheels from scraping on the right wheel arch..because of the design of the back end..
personally i don't think they are needed unless your having scraping issues..
when slammed to the ground , yes , you will need one..
but to have a great handling car , you don't need it sitting on the ground..
personally i don't think they are needed unless your having scraping issues..
when slammed to the ground , yes , you will need one..
but to have a great handling car , you don't need it sitting on the ground..
riko666
Member +
Not that I have driven the car hard with the Whiteline Panhard Rod, but on hardcoreep's point, I do feel it makes the rear axle more stable, especially when trailbraking into a corner, rather than twitching and squirming as it unloads, the Lesser compliance of the Polyurethane bushes keeps the axle in place, allowing for what feels like a bit of rotation. Not a great difference by any means, but in an unloading or cornering situation the rear axle behaves much better
hardcoreep
Member +
The panhard rod stops the later movement of the rear beam. Under heavy braking, or very hard cornering the rear of the car tends to wiggle. Most people will feel this as either a loose rear, or a squirm. This is because the weight is also transfering side-to-side and the hollow bar flexes as the suspension loads and unloads. The rod stops this reverbaration.
I personally didn't know about the realingment thing until much later. That was the second reason I was told to get the bar.
I personally didn't know about the realingment thing until much later. That was the second reason I was told to get the bar.
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
Eh, what are you on?
Don't mean to be rude Brad but an adjustable panhard rod is fundamental to a good setup. To say you only need one if you go really low is very elementary, to say you only need one if you have scraping issues is madness you need to understand why they are needed before posting technical info as people will get the wrong idea, not having a go but it's best to understand the need before commenting
It has nothing to do with "over-sized" wheels either, if you want the rear end to be completely mis-aligned then don't get one but it will handle like shit in all honesty, think about it one wheel will be further in than the other. I don't know about you but if you think that's okay then you need to re-evaluate!
T
hardcoreep
Member +
Here, here minister! *bangs parlimentary table*
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
The Whiteline, RS*R, Zep Panhard rods etc are structurally more rigid than the stock rod which is pretty much hollow if you look closely. The old OEM bushing will also more than likely be worn and the above aftermarket rods all have urethane bushing which again will help, much stiffer.
Lastly you can properly align the rear axle, making sure that the front and rear wheels have an equal track rather than having one wheel different from the others which will really upset the balance. Even Rory will remember me complaining about a un-balanced/equal rear travel more than 5 years ago before I started Toy Tuning. It took me over a year to discover why, I then discovered Whiteline who were still is AUS at this point and imported over everything they sold including the rod and bam problem fixed! I then did a huge WL group buy and Toy Tuning Ltd was born!
Anyhow that's three reasons you should buy an adjustable panhard rod and they all do something for the handling. And sorry to James as we hi-jacked his thread, Dave is on the money though middle or there abouts will be fine, each car will be different, mines near enough the middle on both cars although the other one will be tweaked pending conditions..
Thanks,
T
Lastly you can properly align the rear axle, making sure that the front and rear wheels have an equal track rather than having one wheel different from the others which will really upset the balance. Even Rory will remember me complaining about a un-balanced/equal rear travel more than 5 years ago before I started Toy Tuning. It took me over a year to discover why, I then discovered Whiteline who were still is AUS at this point and imported over everything they sold including the rod and bam problem fixed! I then did a huge WL group buy and Toy Tuning Ltd was born!
Anyhow that's three reasons you should buy an adjustable panhard rod and they all do something for the handling. And sorry to James as we hi-jacked his thread, Dave is on the money though middle or there abouts will be fine, each car will be different, mines near enough the middle on both cars although the other one will be tweaked pending conditions..
Thanks,
T
GTti
Member +
You can feel how terrible the rear is on a stock car when you go over a kink in a road when cornering, the rear wheels (both of them) wiggle arround rather independently in all directions and it feels quite horrific. On hard cornering I would have no confidence in the rear at all.
People keep bantering on about stifness, if you make the front of the car too stiff then you're going to increase understeer on a car that is already front end heavy. There is a balance to be had, not just uprating everything because a company has made a product to do so. They're just after your money.
Some camber on the front, polybushed all round, coilovers, rear problem sorted and a little toe in for the rear should make the car go round corners well.
On a stripped out GT with next to no weight at the rear you don't want to be making things too stiff, you want the front of the car to be taking you directing you want and the rear to provide a extra grip in doing so if you can manage.
As in the rear needs the ability to transfer a little weight from side to side rather than being horizontally solid.
People keep bantering on about stifness, if you make the front of the car too stiff then you're going to increase understeer on a car that is already front end heavy. There is a balance to be had, not just uprating everything because a company has made a product to do so. They're just after your money.
Some camber on the front, polybushed all round, coilovers, rear problem sorted and a little toe in for the rear should make the car go round corners well.
On a stripped out GT with next to no weight at the rear you don't want to be making things too stiff, you want the front of the car to be taking you directing you want and the rear to provide a extra grip in doing so if you can manage.
As in the rear needs the ability to transfer a little weight from side to side rather than being horizontally solid.
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
There will be still be plenty of flex it's not a live axle, a shame but with careful planning you can overcome it with some good alterations in the right places, valid points none the less but the more points you can connect the better.
T
T
i suppose different country's prefer to do different things to get different results..
you guys seem to love FPR's , you probly sell them aswell hey toby ? $$$
alot of the issues we find with the back end is solved with a rear strut brace and shocks , not neceserily the panhard rod..
i've got the panhard rod on my car , but a few very good handling starlets here does not..
in saying that , going through my inventory the other day , i've sold 64 rear swaybars (btr33z) , 31 rear strut braces (ksb534) , to only 6 panhard rods which the owners wanted one purely for wheel scraping..
Red ranger (who took over whiteline) say they are mandatory when changing ride height to correct offset problems..
if you find they are improving the overall feel of the rear of the car , im happy for you.
you guys seem to love FPR's , you probly sell them aswell hey toby ? $$$
alot of the issues we find with the back end is solved with a rear strut brace and shocks , not neceserily the panhard rod..
i've got the panhard rod on my car , but a few very good handling starlets here does not..
in saying that , going through my inventory the other day , i've sold 64 rear swaybars (btr33z) , 31 rear strut braces (ksb534) , to only 6 panhard rods which the owners wanted one purely for wheel scraping..
Red ranger (who took over whiteline) say they are mandatory when changing ride height to correct offset problems..
if you find they are improving the overall feel of the rear of the car , im happy for you.
goldenvtr
Member +
i dont currently have a panard rod but its one of my next mods when the car has been mapped, many people i know have all said it makes a good diffrence.
i spun the GT last year somtime when cornering hard and the back twitched the rear end does have a mind of its own on the edge of grip limits. i corrected it and went 45 deg around a long swooping bend but ended facing sideways upon a halt lol was quite funny, i got coilovers a few weeks after that and helped loads. now ive got a rear arb to go on too should be a little more predictable.
i spun the GT last year somtime when cornering hard and the back twitched the rear end does have a mind of its own on the edge of grip limits. i corrected it and went 45 deg around a long swooping bend but ended facing sideways upon a halt lol was quite funny, i got coilovers a few weeks after that and helped loads. now ive got a rear arb to go on too should be a little more predictable.
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
Right on the money and if that doesn't upset the rear then I don't know what will. When we suggest getting a panhard rod we already assume a rear strut brace and some good shocks and springs have been installed, that's just common sense! If the car was standard ride height then you wouldn't need one and if you were just running lowering springs with stock shocks then you may as well forget it anyway as your not going anywhere fast.
They are specifically for those that are lowering past the stock ride height and want as near perfect as they can get, as soon as you go one mm lower the rear axle is effected and let's face it if you want to get round a corner quick you will need to lower the central gravity unless you want to look like a turbo charged shopping trolley and scrap your knees around the track as the stock ride height is designed for the shopping not the circuit.
Obviously there will be Starlets that will handle well there without them just not as well as the ones with that have been PROPERLY aligned. It's just physics really, we are not trying to sell a product here we just tell it how it is as everyone will tell you but it's a common factor, as even you have stated you do not want the rear wheels at different offsets, anyone will tell you that's madness surely you can see that?!? It's like running 38 ET offset on three wheels and 20 ET on the last one
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hardcoreep
Member +
I'm from Jamaica. I drive 196km a day back and forth to work. Road quality switches from British M25 to Malta back road. I have every conceivable road issue you could think of. I have both a whiteline rear strut brace, and have had both the non-adjustable rear anti-roll bar and the adjustable model. I've also gone through several tyre set ups from 14 to 18inches from 185 to 215mm, from 60 to 35series.
Without the pahhard rod the handling difference is clear to me. If you spend your time driving is a straight line the panhard rod will do nothing. If you have to deal with 100+ corners of various conditions the rod is a must.