burning of the quran- thoughts?

[Phil]

Incidentally we are both involved in a wedding tomorrow. We were discussing earlier how we will handle not taking communion without causing offense or a scene.

you could just mention that even if you were to believe the bible you still cant see anywhere that tells you to take communion at a wedding.

as for the ten commandments(although they were given to the jews and not us) i still think that they cover rape with things like do not covet? do not steal and do not commit adultery?

with rape your wanting something that isnt yours and your then stealing it and your also committng adultery.

Phil

 

[Paddy]

im all for it, finally someone having the balls to show the world what they think of these terrorists using there religion as an excuse to cause mass murder. i watched the program on more 4 called the god delusion, well worth a watch.

 

[williamocarroll1982]

Hey William. I know what you mean mate. You see there is something very satisfying to me about discussing such matters with level headed people who have an opinion. Their opinion does not need to be the same as mine, some people on here like Phil for example have a very different opinion on religion than I do but it is never a case of right or wrong just a case of information exchange and discussion.

Any time you fancy a good discussion on the subject just let me know, id be well up for it

 

[wesgt]

im all for it, finally someone having the balls to show the world what they think of these terrorists using there religion as an excuse to cause mass murder. i watched the program on more 4 called the god delusion, well worth a watch.

too right, lets burn a few ep's too because they are all boy racers!! tar and brush comes to mind...

 

[GTnomez]

im all for it, finally someone having the balls to show the world what they think of these terrorists using there religion as an excuse to cause mass murder. i watched the program on more 4 called the god delusion, well worth a watch.

Your perfectly right saying these terrorists used their religion as an excuse/scapegoat but i would say your wrong to agree to it for that reason. You think burning a book which means so much to millions of people around the world would actually insult a terrorist? Not quite, would just give them a reason to do another disastrous thing.

Muslims did not cause 9/11.

- A passport found in the wreckage without any singes (sp)?
-The names that were released to the public as terrorist didnt match to the manifests?
- Half of those people that were named were still alive.
- An Arabs driving license also found at the crash in pristine condition

I doesnt matter what i am and im not here to defend anyone or anything but to say Muslims caused 9/11 is a overstatement. Im not into conspiracies (which the 9/11 cover up is on hell of) but even programs like 'Zeitgeist' inform you theres more to it than what the media say.

And might i just add, if someone uses their Religion an excuse (in this case its arabs and Islam) then they are NOT a follower of what they claim to be.

 

[Sheldon]

 

[durmz]

Moving on to the points raised regarding religion in general. It is, in my opinion, laughable to say that religion contributes to moral values in society and teaches people a good way to live. Does anyone actually believe that if the ten commandments did not exist we would not know that it was wrong to kill someone? seriously? If you need a bearded man to stroll down from a mountain with a piece of stone and announce that you should not kill people then you are stupid. Also if the ten commandments were in any way a narrative for how a person should live perhaps they should have put in something about raping people... they seem to put in dont steal but if we go by the ten commandments it is perfectly acceptable to rape, great guide to moral values there.

Religion has always been a way to guide people in a certain direction and give them answers for the unexplained. In certain situations it has turned in to a massive business, the catholic church for example, which puts money and power before its followers.

hey dylan, im not gonna try and touch on all the subjects going on in this thread just wanted to reply to this one, as my previous post was stating about this point in general.

I think you give people too much credit, people really really are that stupid, you see idiots every single day, its remarkable how many people are this dumb. even with things like driving, and im talking about like aptitude for intelligence, not people that have dyslexia or geniune lack of ability to learn a certain subject, but people that arent curious enough to learn anything or to think that maybe not everything there being told is true, there are dumb ass people out there I promise you, and is one of the main reasons I believe religion was created, as a tool to manage an unruly society.

just my opinion anyways, allways interesting to read some of your longer posts, your clearly a bright guy and I agree with alot of your points made

 

[addz]

too right, lets burn a few ep's too because they are all boy racers!! tar and brush comes to mind...

Some members on here seriously think audacious acts like this will solve problems. Well said Wes mate. Let's paint them all with the same brush why not.

Got shown this yesterday - pleasing to the cruel, upsetting to the kind.

[video=youtube;3WaB2GH88js]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WaB2GH88js[/video]

 

[pig666eon]

here alot of people are on here saying not to brand muslims all the same ect but you are forgetting what happened in 2006 when muslims protested in Belgium

[video=youtube;0-IIU-Ekd3w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-IIU-Ekd3w[/video]

it wasnt Belgium who done the cartoons but it was belgium who suffered for it. the people in the vid above dont look like extremests to me. they look like they are quite happy to live there but hate the place at the same time. so people who are saying not to make all muslims suffer because of the extremests but muslims were quick to make belgium suffer for one mans cartoons. very hypocritical

looking at the pics below this is also pointless but is still don frequently. i think america are within there right to burn a book without being protested by muslims.

and one for the english

 

[addz]

I find it hard to believe that you still aren't grasping the point. These guys go by the name of 'Muslims', but breach their religion by extreme margins, enough so to say they are considered as non-Muslims. Therefore carry out these audacious, imbecile acts. They are actually not 'Muslims', but are only Muslims to your eyes as they are BROWN, FEZ on their HEAD, TALKING a foreign language or wearing DIFFERENT CLOTHING.

Believe me they are not Muslims whom the majority of good Muslims that I or many would call FRIENDS or devout believers. These guys are so far gone and lost they become feedom fighters from what they see, read and hear - such as WAR and the like. Once you've breached a term and condition you are no longer a Muslim, and acts can still be carried out in the name of Islam (which they genuinely are not).

Just like a car race, you can drive, commit errors, lose points, complete the race first and still come last - poor example but just trying to get a message to you.

Today I'm a Christian, and want to bomb abortion clinics, but tomorrow I won't practice Christianity, but still hang the Christ cross off my neck and carry on performing similar acts. Do you not get the idea

 

[pig666eon]

I find it hard to believe that you still aren't grasping the point. These guys go by the name of 'Muslims', but breach their religion by extreme margins, enough so to say they are considered as non-Muslims. Therefore carry out these audacious, imbecile acts. They are actually not 'Muslims', but are only Muslims to your eyes as they are BROWN, FEZ on their HEAD, TALKING a foreign language or wearing DIFFERENT CLOTHING.

Believe me they are not Muslims whom the majority of good Muslims that I or many would call FRIENDS or devout believers. These guys are so far gone and lost they become feedom fighters from what they see, read and hear - such as WAR and the like. Once you've breached a term and condition you are no longer a Muslim, and acts can still be carried out in the name of Islam (which they genuinely are not).

Just like a car race, you can drive, commit errors, lose points, complete the race first and still come last - poor example but just trying to get a message to you.

Today I'm a Christian, and want to bomb abortion clinics, but tomorrow I won't practice Christianity, but still hang the Christ cross off my neck and carry on performing similar acts. Do you not get the idea

i 100% get were you are coming from man and i hope in my last few posts i dont come across being raciest or anything but i would agree on your point about it being only a select few but its not. hundreds of thousands of muslims protested in 2006 and caused alot of grief worldwide over it. if it was just a select few i would say yes but its clearly not.

 

[williamocarroll1982]

I'm not being smart, just curious when i ask this. What do you call somebody that believes that Allah is the saviour of the world but thinks its ok to commit murder in the name of God? Because when a Christian does something horrific i don't deny he/she is a Christian. I just consider him/her to be deluded and have a twisted version of the word of Christ. Pedophile Catholic priests are still Catholic, just because they commit a vile crime on innocent children doesn't mean they are no longer Catholic. People sin every day in varying degree's of seriousness. If a Muslim's gets depressed and gets weak and has a drink of alcohol does that mean he is no longer a Muslim? Or if he steals or commits adultery or any sin for that matter, are they no longer Muslim? Have you ever sinned?

This is what I don't like about a lot of Muslims, they deny the extremists. They say "This is the total opposite to what we believe, these extremists are not Muslim's". The fact of the matter is that they ARE Muslim's, they're just sinners. Just like Hitler was a Christian and I don't deny that. There have been countless Christians throughout history who have committed unthinkable atrocities but they were still Christians. You can't say that these extremists are not Muslims just because what they do is wrong. I'm sorry if you don't like it but thats just how it is.

 

[pig666eon]

I'm not being smart, just curious when i ask this. What do you call somebody that believes that Allah is the saviour of the world but thinks its ok to commit murder in the name of God? Because when a Christian does something horrific i don't deny he/she is a Christian. I just consider him/her to be deluded and have a twisted version of the word of Christ. Pedophile Catholic priests are still Catholic, just because they commit a vile crime on innocent children doesn't mean they are no longer Catholic. People sin every day in varying degree's of seriousness. If a Muslim's gets depressed and gets weak and has a drink of alcohol does that mean he is no longer a Muslim? Or if he steals or commits adultery or any sin for that matter, are they no longer Muslim? Have you ever sinned?

This is what I don't like about a lot of Muslims, they deny the extremists. They say "This is the total opposite to what we believe, these extremists are not Muslim's". The fact of the matter is that they ARE Muslim's, they're just sinners. Just like Hitler was a Christian and I don't deny that. There have been countless Christians throughout history who have committed unthinkable atrocities but they were still Christians. You can't say that these extremists are not Muslims just because what they do is wrong. I'm sorry if you don't like it but thats just how it is.

also muslims arent so quick to protest agents the extremests over their actions but if one person decides to burn a book there is anarchy

at least people in america get out and protest for what they know is right and wrong regardless of who it is.

 

[DAVID 96 GLANZA V]

december 21st 2012

 

[addz]

I'm not being smart, just curious when i ask this. What do you call somebody that believes that Allah is the saviour of the world but thinks its ok to commit murder in the name of God? Because when a Christian does something horrific i don't deny he/she is a Christian. I just consider him/her to be deluded and have a twisted version of the word of Christ. Pedophile Catholic priests are still Catholic, just because they commit a vile crime on innocent children doesn't mean they are no longer Catholic. People sin every day in varying degree's of seriousness. If a Muslim's gets depressed and gets weak and has a drink of alcohol does that mean he is no longer a Muslim? Or if he steals or commits adultery or any sin for that matter, are they no longer Muslim? Have you ever sinned?

This is what I don't like about a lot of Muslims, they deny the extremists. They say "This is the total opposite to what we believe, these extremists are not Muslim's". The fact of the matter is that they ARE Muslim's, they're just sinners. Just like Hitler was a Christian and I don't deny that. There have been countless Christians throughout history who have committed unthinkable atrocities but they were still Christians. You can't say that these extremists are not Muslims just because what they do is wrong. I'm sorry if you don't like it but thats just how it is.

I can't answer all of your questions as I am not in the power or position nor immense knowledge to do so, but of which I can, I will. To kill in the name of Allah for frenzy is forbidden, and only hell is destined. Also the Qur'an is a book of life, a way of living. If people are killed or hurt for plain disobedience then only hell is destined for one. Islam is a very stern religion, and for one to be devout one cannot harm another, and must follow in a strict manor possible (humble and sincere). Once, let's in laymens terminology, 'terms and condition' have been breached in Islam according to the Qur'an, you become astray and only utter repentance and years of supplication MAY make up for wrongdoings. Islam is a very forgiving religion, but once gone astray from the correct path, only mankind can consider forgiving. Christianity and Islam does share some similar values. There is only ONE version of the Qur'an, never has there been a revised model opposed to the Bible - it is very authentic, and only genuine Muslims can call themselves Muslims. We are all sinners, but once a serious act has been committed, only the court of the almighty can forgive. Similar to committing an offence such as murder, in the court of law serious supplication can be exchanged, but when the jury makes it's mind, your going down. Yes we're all sinners like the example I've given, but some sins just can't be cleared with ease. Just like Starlet sinners whom ruin/chav/destroy their cars, they get lambasted and rebuked - but will you forgive

also muslims arent so quick to protest agents the extremests over their actions but if one person decides to burn a book there is anarchy

at least people in america get out and protest for what they know is right and wrong regardless of who it is.

So now you SAY protest is the only answer to authentic followers? That is totally absurd and illogical, and think out of the AMERICAN box.

How do you think a protest against extremists in the UK would go down? It would give people from all cultures, creeds, and religion to show fury and the likes. I mean come on, now do you really think a protest solves in abundance? Look at the likes of the G20 protest - it can be nasty and can get seriously out of hand. England, especially where I'm from (close to London), protests don't go down too well. And on many occasions a decent, humble protest can turn into chaos. I, and many other British citizens can't imagine a protest between 'devout Islam VS extreme Islam - to the MAJORITY that is perceived as 'WAR ON WAR' without a doubt.

A protest isn't the answer to this problem, I'm sorry that's just the gospel truth. Also, I don't understand this 'I am not racist comment or the like' - I just don't really care. We are ALL racist in some shape or form, yes including ME - I am not establishing anything, just the utter truism.

 

[pig666eon]

I can't answer all of your questions as I am not in the power or position nor immense knowledge to do so, but of which I can, I will. To kill in the name of Allah for frenzy is forbidden, and only hell is destined. Also the Qur'an is a book of life, a way of living. If people are killed or hurt for plain disobedience then only hell is destined for one. Islam is a very stern religion, and for one to be devout one cannot harm another, and must follow in a strict manor possible (humble and sincere). Once, let's in laymens terminology, 'terms and condition' have been breached in Islam according to the Qur'an, you become astray and only utter repentance and years of supplication MAY make up for wrongdoings. Islam is a very forgiving religion, but once gone astray from the correct path, only mankind can consider forgiving. Christianity and Islam does share some similar values. There is only ONE version of the Qur'an, never has there been a revised model opposed to the Bible - it is very authentic, and only genuine Muslims can call themselves Muslims. We are all sinners, but once a serious act has been committed, only the court of the almighty can forgive. Similar to committing an offence such as murder, in the court of law serious supplication can be exchanged, but when the jury makes it's mind, your going down. Yes we're all sinners like the example I've given, but some sins just can't be cleared with ease. Just like Starlet sinners whom ruin/chav/destroy their cars, they get lambasted and rebuked - but will you forgive



So now you SAY protest is the only answer to authentic followers? That is totally absurd and illogical, and think out of the AMERICAN box.

How do you think a protest against extremists in the UK would go down? It would give people from all cultures, creeds, and religion to show fury and the likes. I mean come on, now do you really think a protest solves in abundance? Look at the likes of the G20 protest - it can be nasty and can get seriously out of hand. England, especially where I'm from (close to London), protests don't go down too well. And on many occasions a decent, humble protest can turn into chaos. I, and many other British citizens can't imagine a protest between 'devout Islam VS extreme Islam - to the MAJORITY that is perceived as 'WAR ON WAR' without a doubt.

A protest isn't the answer to this problem, I'm sorry that's just the gospel truth. Also, I don't understand this 'I am not racist comment or the like' - I just don't really care. We are ALL racist in some shape or form, yes including ME - I am not establishing anything, just the utter truism.

here man you make it sound like muslims havent done it before. they can get out and protest when they want so why not make it on a general scale. you cant protest for one thing and not another?

sorry bud if hundred of thousand of Christians were out disgracing the name of the the religion by there actions we wouldnt just say ah there not really christians leave them do what they want. no we would go fucking ape and make sure the good name of Christianity wasnt used again in such actions. muslims do not however. they let these people do what they do because they believe its a just cause fact. the only people who say that they dont like violence is the people who live in other countrys and the hard truth is that they only do it so they can have a better life there and not be branded as a extremest. i would love to here some ordinary joe from the far east comment on how bad the extremests are man its not going to happen.

no man i dont say protest is the answer my point was that muslims dont protest themselves as a community but are well able to get out and protest on other matters.

look at this. these to me look like everyday people but they didnt come out to protest thy came out for trouble. this is in london a place which wad no involvement with the 2006 stuff but still suffered. what exactly were they trying to prove here man. you can say yes protests can turn into riots the odd occasions but this went on worldwide. as said they didnt come out to protest they came out for revenge.

[video=youtube;qoMeUcC_M20]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMeUcC_M20[/video]

 

[Aidan@EP-styling]

Just watched that video ^^ Looks like a pregnant Bin Laden @ 4.05 !

Those muslims in that video should be greated by a fleet of petrol bombs! Well at least that is what I would be doing if it happened where I live!

 

[addz]

here man you make it sound like muslims havent done it before. they can get out and protest when they want so why not make it on a general scale. you cant protest for one thing and not another?

sorry bud if hundred of thousand of Christians were out disgracing the name of the the religion by there actions we wouldnt just say ah there not really christians leave them do what they want. no we would go fucking ape and make sure the good name of Christianity wasnt used again in such actions. muslims do not however. they let these people do what they do because they believe its a just cause fact. the only people who say that they dont like violence is the people who live in other countrys and the hard truth is that they only do it so they can have a better life there and not be branded as a extremest. i would love to here some ordinary joe from the far east comment on how bad the extremests are man its not going to happen.

no man i dont say protest is the answer my point was that muslims dont protest themselves as a community but are well able to get out and protest on other matters.

look at this. these to me look like everyday people but they didnt come out to protest thy came out for trouble. this is in london a place which wad no involvement with the 2006 stuff but still suffered. what exactly were they trying to prove here man. you can say yes protests can turn into riots the odd occasions but this went on worldwide. as said they didnt come out to protest they came out for revenge.

I can't watch the video above, but I'm guessing it's extremists protesting?

So you want a protest just so that YOU, the English people and maybe the Americans are SURE that all Muslims are not terrorists. This isn't utopia. Also one doesn't need a protest to prove a point. And yes, Muslims do protest, I am not denying that.

Take me for example, pretty similar to your average day to day person. Wake up, watch telly, enjoy cars, enjoy life generally. I have never committed myself to a protest and I don't think I ever will - there are many like me who make NO time, or next to none for protests. If you are willed to believe all Muslims are terrorist then that's your poor UNEDUCATED perception, and I just wish better for you.

 

[pig666eon]

I can't watch the video above, but I'm guessing it's extremists protesting?

So you want a protest just so that YOU, the English people and maybe the Americans are SURE that all Muslims are not terrorists. This isn't utopia. Also one doesn't need a protest to prove a point. And yes, Muslims do protest, I am not denying that.

Take me for example, pretty similar to your average day to day person. Wake up, watch telly, enjoy cars, enjoy life generally. I have never committed myself to a protest and I don't think I ever will - there are many like me who make NO time, or next to none for protests. If you are willed to believe all Muslims are terrorist then that's your poor UNEDUCATED perception, and I just wish better for you.

no man it doesnt have to be protest but some way of differencing them selves from these people then. but they dont. we are talking about a majority here man not me or you. i never said once all muslims are terrorists so dont say shit about my perceptions. i was the first to get on here and make that point if you want to look back through the thread.

fact is man its a majority and the minority is not going to be able to change their views. so what do you expect? they do it in the name of their religion and they are not told otherwise by other muslims. if they can differentiate then they agree with what was going. you cant say i dont like what they are doin but were are all still one. i have yet to see another modern day religion do these types of things. have nothing agenst muslims or any religion for that matter but if they do these type of things then they will get whats coming to them. dont knock on the bullys door cause he will come out eventually. do you not think people are fed up with all this shit? as a modern time we live in this is unacceptable

 

[addz]

no man it doesnt have to be protest but some way of differencing them selves from these people then. but they dont. we are talking about a majority here man not me or you. i never said once all muslims are terrorists so dont say shit about my perceptions. i was the first to get on here and make that point if you want to look back through the thread.

fact is man its a majority and the minority is not going to be able to change their views. so what do you expect? they do it in the name of their religion and they are not told otherwise by other muslims. if they can differentiate then they agree with what was going. you cant say i dont like what they are doin but were are all still one. i have yet to see another modern day religion do these types of things. have nothing agenst muslims or any religion for that matter but if they do these type of things then they will get whats coming to them. dont knock on the bullys door cause he will come out eventually. do you not think people are fed up with all this shit? as a modern time we live in this is unacceptable

Firstly sorry that wasn't aimed directly at you, just meant it in general but I guess I used 'you' in an open haste.

We are trying to distinguish, tell apart every day Muslims to extremists. All you've got to do is know a few Muslims to know this, or even have things like Facebook to see we DON'T advocate or support extreme Muslims groups.

I am part of this group in conjunction with many other modern Muslims who are not poisoned. It's a facebook group called 'MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORISTS AND TERRORISTS ARE NOT MUSLIMS'

This group was created by a 17 year old Muslim, like me, and you (as a non-Muslim) angry with terrorism.

'As a 17 year old and a British born Muslim, i find it a disgrace what these so-called "muslims" are doing. They carry out these terrorist attacks and actions claiming to be doing these in the name of Allah (islamic name for god). This is utter nonsense. This is creating a lot of predjudice against the real Muslims and our country, England is slowly becoming more anti-islamic due to these so-called "muslims." REAL muslims dont want war, REAL muslims love this country and REAL muslims are NOT terrorists!'

That's quoted off the Facebook homepage just in case you don't have facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=235659238940&v=info&ref=ts

So things are being done, and only within time I'm sure different colour shirts will be worn just to point out to non-Muslims whom terrorists are and aren't - wouldn't that be dandy.