Drugs, what the government doesnt want you to know

[sacodetoro]

You may get your information about the army from documentaries so I'll assume you know nothing as to what it is like.
Ask a soldier why they are in Afghanistan, it certainly isn't fighting for the Queen, they will tell you it's not for them to decide they are just doing their job.
The majority of them do it as they love the life and love the job, I'm not saying they aren't patriotic, of course they are but it's not the sole reason why they do it.

I've eaten the food, nutrition the body needs :haha: I can tell you haven't had to live on it.
I think you are reffering to ration packs and nutrional requirements, compare a UK one to a US one and you'll know what I'm talking about.
Don't try and tell me that an MP getting Honey roast gammon with Pease pudding for £1.65 is them making dietry sacrifice in the line of public service as it is not the case.

I'm a very well educated person and have dealt with manys a public servant.
I've dealt with MP's and MLA's and know a lot of people who work in the civil service.
I'm not saying the majority are bad at their job or corrupt.
I am saying that they aren't making any sacrifices in the line of public service that any other working person isn't doing everyday in their own job.
They have a job they are paid very well to do with a fantastic pension and great benefits, that is the reason they do what they do not some dream of serving the public, they may tell you that's why they're there but it's not the case.
Even if they do something grossly negligent all they have to do is resign their ministerial post but they're still employed as an MP.
Believe all the propaganda and spin you want, but you need a reality check

I'm not going to be so nieve and believe that you know anything about government employees. You can raise as many judgemental comments as you wish, but it's getting tiresome listening to yet more e-MP's suggestions. Please stop pretending!

If you know anything about nutrition then luxurious food does not usually equate to healthy foods. Food provided to the Army is meant to provide the nutrition the body needs, it is based purely around the essential intake. It's not just a case of cooking up luxurious food in the battlefield, it has to be compact and transportable. People join the Army by choice, most of whom from documentaries insist they are there because they want to fight for our country and the Queen.

It's called patriotism. If people are so disgusted about the way this government runs the country why not leave? You can almost guarantee you won't be as well looked after or as safe in the majority of other nations.

Anyway, at least we agree that other drugs should remain illegal.

 

[GTti]

You are missing my main point. We dont need anymore drugs to be legalised and create the same effects that already exist with alcohol. I'm not suggesting alcohol isn't just as bad or even worse, I'm stating that we do not need another or any other legal drugs.

Given the fact that alcohol is socially acceptable and legal and creates such a large problem. If these other forms of drugs became legal and just as acceptable, then it would seem logical the current problems would increase tenfold.

But that is an ultimate idea that neither of us can predict.

The fact that alcohol is legal is not really entirely a political one, it's more historic.

 

[gv1.3]

but if alcohol is killing so many people wouldnt the government be well advised to heed the information their hired experts are giving them rather than sacking them?

Im not sure why it is logical that current problems would increase ten fold if these drugs were legalised - there is no evidence to support that, what we do know is that people are already using them.

Ive been to Amsterdam a few times and at chucking out time Ive never seen a fight or antisocial behavior just happy people in good form. Go out in any major city and let people full of drink loose on the street at 3am and you dont have to go far to find people beating the shit out of each other.

 

[1bar]

but if alcohol is killing so many people wouldnt the government be well advised to heed the information their hired experts are giving them rather than sacking them?

Im not sure why it is logical that current problems would increase ten fold if these drugs were legalised - there is no evidence to support that, what we do know is that people are already using them.

Ive been to Amsterdam a few times and at chucking out time Ive never seen a fight or antisocial behavior just happy people in good form. Go out in any major city and let people full of drink loose on the street at 3am and you dont have to go far to find people beating the shit out of each other.

How you know they havent mix drugs with alcohol? Its not like the 2 dont go together. I think you have a misconception or clouded by what you see on the streets over there. Not everything you see paints a perfect picture.

 

[Sheldon]

what drugs you think should be legal?

 

[gv1.3]

How you know they havent mix drugs with alcohol? Its not like the 2 dont go together. I think you have a misconception or clouded by what you see on the streets over there. Not everything you see paints a perfect picture.

Maybe mate but everyone seems a lot calmer and Ive not witnessed any trouble. Ive even been there on new years eve with the squares packed full of people and everyone was just having fun.

what drugs you think should be legal?

haha.. was waiting for someone to ask this will be very interested to hear other peoples views on this.

I personally think we should define a point that we find acceptable and then assess the risks of all drugs and anything deemed less harmful than what we deem to be acceptable should be legal. For example in my mind I think marijuana, mushrooms and some other stimulants along the lines of caffine should be legal. I think its totally hypocritical to condone alcohol and ban other drugs that have less harmful effects.

I think conclusive research should be undertaken to study the effects of substances and this research should be free of influence from people with political agendas.

 

[Sheldon]

Maybe mate but everyone seems a lot calmer and Ive not witnessed any trouble. Ive even been there on new years eve with the squares packed full of people and everyone was just having fun.


haha.. was waiting for someone to ask this will be very interested to hear other peoples views on this.

I personally think we should define a point that we find acceptable and then assess the risks of all drugs and anything deemed less harmful than what we deem to be acceptable should be legal. For example in my mind I think marijuana, mushrooms and some other stimulants along the lines of caffine should be legal. I think its totally hypocritical to condone alcohol and ban other drugs that have less harmful effects.

I think conclusive research should be undertaken to study the effects of substances and this research should be free of influence from people with political agendas.

but the thing is that each drug effects some persosn really different.. so you dont know what they really can do..

probably many people will aceapt weed as it isnt harmfull and i dont think it can make you act weird.

also, dont you think that if drugs where legal, obviosly they have to be made under some rules and whit what are they done. so i dont think they will be as good as they are now as they will do themm less "harmfull"

 

[1bar]

Maybe mate but everyone seems a lot calmer and Ive not witnessed any trouble. Ive even been there on new years eve with the squares packed full of people and everyone was just having fun.


haha.. was waiting for someone to ask this will be very interested to hear other peoples views on this.

I personally think we should define a point that we find acceptable and then assess the risks of all drugs and anything deemed less harmful than what we deem to be acceptable should be legal. For example in my mind I think marijuana, mushrooms and some other stimulants along the lines of caffine should be legal. I think its totally hypocritical to condone alcohol and ban other drugs that have less harmful effects.

I think conclusive research should be undertaken to study the effects of substances and this research should be free of influence from people with political agendas.

Have you ever taking mushrooms? I dont think so otherwise you wouldnt of said what you said. Doing mushys causes mean as hallucinogenic effects depending what your mind is in. Trust me you dont want to have a bad buzz "trip" when you on mushys. I think if you havent experience taking any drugs then i feel you should before giving a statement you have never experience. Sounds like you think everyone that takes drugs seems to be happy as larry.

I can tell you now there a dark side and not every joint or whatever drug you have is going to be good. Experiencing a bad buzz (trip) is not pleasant and is every drugy nightmare. Dont think i know anyone whos wants a bad buzz specially a freaky one. When you see you mate hiding under the bed coos he thinks someone or something out to get them is not fun at all. This all can happen just by smoking a jay or having a couple of spots. This also depends on the setting or what state thier mind in at the time and the people around you can have a big influence on what buzz you get be it good or bad.

 

[GTti]

Dylan, did they not teach you about drugs at school? I am astounded you think that mushrooms should be legal, have you ever taken them?

I was taught over 10 years ago that mushrooms can trigger mental flashbacks or psychotic episodes weeks, months or years after taking the drug.

I haven't personally taken mushrooms and never will, I know various close friends that have and they have had visual hallucinations. I have had extreme paranoia after consuming cannabis to the point where I thought I had consumed LSD or mushrooms (And it wasn't the first time I've had it), it wasn't a nice experience, the LOW effects of cannabis are just as dominant as the high.


If you get your way, in 100 years time people will be oblivious to the fact that these hallucinogenics were ever illegal, it will be treated in just the same way as alcohol and completely normal. You need to think from a perspective that these drugs could potentially be used and abused just like the legal ones, as well as the everything that comes with it. Yes there is no evidence to suggest that this would or wouldn't happen, there never will be. But it's clear to me when there is the potential, it's not worth finding out.

I have to say people aren't thinking straight on this one. I've seen people cause vandalism and theft whilst high on cannabis, at the time they think it's funny - just as some people do on alcohol. I've observed a number of people constantly driving while high on cannabis, do I think they are in the best mental state to be driving? No! Is this any worse than drink driving? Probably not.

Me and two others had to move out of an apartment because one of my flat mates decided his rent money would be better spent on 'pills'. He lost his ways, his health and the majority of his friends. He lied compulsively about his habbit, it's unfortunate that I know many others who've become the same way. Luckily women are around to pick them back up again.

You've been out to Amsterdam a 'few times' and never seen any trouble, I've been out drinking 100's of times both in England and abroad and have also never seen any trouble. That doesn't mean anything.

 

[Sheldon]

I was taught over 10 years ago that mushrooms can trigger mental flashbacks or psychotic episodes weeks, months or years after taking the drug.

after about 3 months something strange happend to me like i was on something strong for about half an hour (i was told) as i tought it took ages.. didnt touch it another time after that, it will not ahppen to everyone but yes you can be one. imagine its legal.. and every single person can easyly take shroomz... imagine how many people can get this reaction and can get easyly hurt.. for example this "flashback/weird stuff" happens while your drivin/at work/crossing the street/using an angle grinder.. just to name a few..

 

[GTti]

I think its totally hypocritical to condone alcohol and ban other drugs that have less harmful effects.

Don't agree with this also.

The government have taken many measures over the last 10 years to make people aware are harmful effects of our 'legal' drugs. This government has done more to protect people, yet you government bashers are oblivious to it, I think people exaggerate government propaganda.

- Ban on tobacco advertising
- Picture warnings and labels
- Banning of smoking in public places
- Anti-smoking advertisements
- NHS assistance etc
- Tax

I had spent years hounding my mother and step father to stop smoking, these adverts helped and sometimes we got somewhere. It took until my step farther contracted lung cancer for him to say "I'm never smoking again!". But he soon lit up when they told him his illness was actually caused by asbestos. Funny!

In regards to alcohol, the government have launched many champagnes about domestic abuse, binge drinking and the effects of alcohol. They have just invested £100 million in the "Drink water champaign" to target youth binge drinking. You're not living here in the UK to watch them, so I understand why you're oblivious to it.

Yes I think more should be done. The idea of the government turning around on their work (And I think good work in relation to drugs) is preposterous, and this seems to be exactly why Prof Nutt was sacked.

If we were to legalise other drugs in a 'controlled' manner the infastructure would cost billions. Why wouldn't we see the same millions of pounds being invested in anti cannabis and anti mushroom adverts. High tax (So still illegal imports), banning in public places, advertising, law enforcement etc.

 

[GTti]

after about 3 months something strange happend to me like i was on something strong for about half an hour (i was told) as i tought it took ages.. didnt touch it another time after that, it will not ahppen to everyone but yes you can be one. imagine its legal.. and every single person can easyly take shroomz... imagine how many people can get this reaction and can get easyly hurt.. for example this "flashback/weird stuff" happens while your drivin/at work/crossing the street/using an angle grinder.. just to name a few..

It's great to hear from the people here who have a REAL experience of these other illegal drugs. It seems that more people here have had bad experiences of illegal drugs yet have taken in such a small quantity, than what they have had of consuming legal drugs such as alcohol for years.

 

[Texx]

I know enough about chronic cannabis use to say I would not recommend it to anyone, it's certainly not what I would class as harmless to the user, however I know enough to say that I don't believe that being caught in possession of it should carry a sentence of up to 5 years in prison. I don't think cannabis should be legalised, but I also don't think it's use should be criminalised either.

 

[GTti]

I think they're more interested in placing on the spot fines as a preventative method rather than imprisioning people. Just as you can be fined for drinking in a public place or for public disorder, at the moment Cannabis just seems to be confiscated.

Raising the classification doesn't make its use any more 'criminalised' though, regardless of classification it's still illegal.

 

[Beaker]

I can speak from experience on Cannabis. I am quite a bit older than most people on this site and played about with "normal" recreation drugs in my younger days (coke, speed, weed, mushies) I have never had a pill and never would. To me they are nasty. When Pills came out my you only needed one to party the night away, now people take shit loads so they must be a lot weaker and full of rubbish.
Coke is the same. Now it seems to be so cut down, the difference between coke now and 10-15 years ago is huge. Theres no coke in coke now. I am not a regular coke head but have had it recently and there is no comparisn to what it was. I would hate to know what is in it now.
Weed though is a danger. I dont mind admitting that I had a bit of a breakdown a few years ago and I can tell you 100% that it was weed related. Yes I did smoke a lot of it, but I thought I was OK. I had to quit my job and was in a bad way for at least 6 months. I wasnt stoned at work or anything like that, I was just mentally buggered. Went to the doctors, sorted myself out and now am OK. I wouldnt reccomend weed to anyone.
Magic mushrooms are in my opinion about the safest drug going as at least you know there are no additives in them and what you are eating is what you picked. People have been using them for thousands of years. Yes if you go crazy on them you would fuck yourself up, but if taken responcibly, around friends, you will be fine. Not if you do this every day though, once in a while.

 

[Phil]

anything thats legalised can be used as a way for reducing a sentance for the criminal.

if are down for gbh when drunk somehow stats suggest that your going to get less for it that if your sober.

if you legalise mushrooms or lsd or the like and you blank out completely a day or a month down the line at work killing a fellow employee, do you deserve a more lenient punishment? cause your going to stand a greater chance of getting one if its legalised.

you can harp on about statistic not lying and how that alcoholism is a greater problem and ive got to agree alcoholism is a bigger issue, but that doenst mean drugs isnt an issue, just means less people take them in excess.

its like argueing the the sky is blue...NO NO but the grass is green haha

both are problems, if half the population drink and a tenth do the odd drug then the statistics are going to lean overwhelmingly in one direction.

question is of the people who take these things which user regrets it more? the druggie or the alcoholic? the ocassion drug user or the social drinker?

im not saying that your not free to do what you want cause ultimately you are, you can take class A drugs if you want, you have the choice to do as you please not my problem.

so long as you responsible for your actions or held responsible then its down to the users weakness to how much or often he abuses him/her self.

i read your link dylan think on the first page>? 2nd maybe, was interesting, dont know that the guy getting sacked was anything but a matter of principle?

Phil

 

[GT_Irl]

It's great to hear from the people here who have a REAL experience of these other illegal drugs. It seems that more people here have had bad experiences of illegal drugs yet have taken in such a small quantity, than what they have had of consuming legal drugs such as alcohol for years.

I dont agree. Ive sampled practically everything and have had not had any negative reactions, maybe im just lucky. As for alcohol, Is still believe it is far worse then shrooms or cannabis. Just take a drive through town at night dude...MESS! As for cannabis, taken in a controlled environment (like at home) you do not cause anyone anyone any hassle etc etc. So why not legalise cannabis and shrooms and have strict controls like you can only consume them in the privacy of your own home or in a registered vendor. As for driving under the influence, have you seen the ads dude? They can test for drugs now so, thats a no brainer really..same story as alcohol, if ya do it your retarded and deserve to crash and die:holdit:

Edit: I believe salvia should be banned and lsd should remain banned. Exstacy if produced right is safe, smae for mdma so possibly if there production was severly controlled they would also be fine. Sure you can buy legal herbal exsctacy but the come down is unbelievably bad...way worse than the illegal stuff! Cannabis and shrooms should be legalised but with strict guidelines on strenghts too be sold and where and when they can be consumed etc

 

[basketash]

this is a intresting topis APAS proved the alcohol ws more damaging to your body than any drug known to man. The goverment scraped this report and carried on with current classification. The problem that im aware of his drugs like cannabis are not a concern but the money thats made from them is as its used to buy other harder drugs and substances and this is why its classified as it is.

 

[basketash]

I can speak from experience on Cannabis. I am quite a bit older than most people on this site and played about with "normal" recreation drugs in my younger days (coke, speed, weed, mushies) I have never had a pill and never would. To me they are nasty. When Pills came out my you only needed one to party the night away, now people take shit loads so they must be a lot weaker and full of rubbish.
Coke is the same. Now it seems to be so cut down, the difference between coke now and 10-15 years ago is huge. Theres no coke in coke now. I am not a regular coke head but have had it recently and there is no comparisn to what it was. I would hate to know what is in it now.
Weed though is a danger. I dont mind admitting that I had a bit of a breakdown a few years ago and I can tell you 100% that it was weed related. Yes I did smoke a lot of it, but I thought I was OK. I had to quit my job and was in a bad way for at least 6 months. I wasnt stoned at work or anything like that, I was just mentally buggered. Went to the doctors, sorted myself out and now am OK. I wouldnt reccomend weed to anyone.
Magic mushrooms are in my opinion about the safest drug going as at least you know there are no additives in them and what you are eating is what you picked. People have been using them for thousands of years. Yes if you go crazy on them you would fuck yourself up, but if taken responcibly, around friends, you will be fine. Not if you do this every day though, once in a while.

coke speed are not normal there man made substances shrooms and cannabis are natural but depends where it come from 99% of wat is smoked on the streets is total dross ive been a smoker for around 6-7 years and so far ive come across 1 grower who produces a nice smoke and i live inner city in notts so i come across a million n 1 drug dealers everyday but depends alot of smoker are influenced by the word peng lol not such thing its a chav based saying

 

[Sheldon]

I dont agree. Ive sampled practically everything and have had not had any negative reactions, maybe im just lucky.

and yours saying it should be legal cos you never had a bad trip ????? what about others who had??