Finally got my forged build mapped

[dac69er]

It's been a longish build on this one, but it's finally running and mapped.

Forged 4e running a wepr hybrid td04 kit @ 1.4 bar.
Only got 260bhp, which was a bit disappointing tbh

Its only done about 300 miles since being built and needs a couple of bits sorting, so I think it has a bit more In it once it has a few thousand miles on it and has freed up a bit.

It does go well and the place that did the mapping allowed me to be fully involved in it all, so that was a good experience and I learnt alot from it.

Will get some pics up soon.......

 

[gorganl2000]

congratulation on your achievements thus far...don't get to caught up in " power numbers" as they are only a reference point,,it's really how the car performs and drives overall...different dynos will yield different results....it's possible the tuners were conservative too....as well, your car engine is still very low mileage,,i tend to go with 1000/2000km for a good run/break in,,..
plus you gained some great tuning knowledge

 

[SKINY]

It's a nice amount for a bean tin tho Bro
Good to see your out boosting again

 

[daniel_g]

Glad it went well you fella, 260 is alright for 1.4bar.

 

[Jay]

Good to hear it's up and running Duncan.

Unpopular opinion but I'd take a well mapped, useable 260bhp over an over-stretched 300bhp any day. Sometimes the big figure equates to less drivability.

Anyways, the closer you get to the 300 the more stuff you can break lol.

 

[dac69er]

I will be honest, even with the quaife diff, it is a bit of a handful, you wouldn't want much more on the road otherwise it would become almost undriveable in most situations.

I think I will finish giving it a good run in and get some miles on it. Do the few tweaks I want to do on it and go back at 1.5 bar boost and see if I can get a little more out of her.

I was just a bit disappointed after the time, money and effort put in. The turbo kit promised the world and was a bit lacklustre. Alot of stock td04 setups run 1.4 bar and achieve that power. I could have just done that and saved a lot of money.

 

[Djaniero]

Glad to hear you got the build completed, back up and running Duncan. As said above dyno's can be a funny thing at times. Mine made 233bhp @ 1 bar on the so called heart breaker dyno....but always wondered what it what make on others.
How does yours drive @ 1.4 bar compared to your previous setup?

 

[dac69er]

Mine made about 210bhp at 1 bar, but that was with conservative timing.
We went up to 1.4 bar, sorted the fuelling, then Started adding timing.
We got to 265, but the last 2 degrees of timing we put in only gave a small increase, so dialled it back as the tuner said he though he heard a very slight bit of knock just before the redline.

Compared to the last setup, it is night and day, it is an animal in comparison. It is 60bhp above the last setup, so not a huge amount realistically.
I am really glad I went with external waste gate, boost control is so much better.

My main disappointment was the money spent and my expectations. I feel I could have saved a good bit of money and got the same outcome.

 

[SKINY]

Is 260ish not the average hp area for a standard TD04 turbo tho ?

 

[Djaniero]

Mine made about 210bhp at 1 bar, but that was with conservative timing.
We went up to 1.4 bar, sorted the fuelling, then Started adding timing.
We got to 265, but the last 2 degrees of timing we put in only gave a small increase, so dialled it back as the tuner said he though he heard a very slight bit of knock just before the redline.

Compared to the last setup, it is night and day, it is an animal in comparison. It is 60bhp above the last setup, so not a huge amount realistically.
I am really glad I went with external waste gate, boost control is so much better.

My main disappointment was the money spent and my expectations. I feel I could have saved a good bit of money and got the same outcome.

I see your point, although 260bhp will be no slouch in a starlet. What would you have done differently to save your money....pushed the limits of the previous setup you had?

 

[dac69er]

Is 260ish not the average hp area for a standard TD04 turbo tho ?

Exactly my point.....

 

[dac69er]

I see your point, although 260bhp will be no slouch in a starlet. What would you have done differently to save your money....pushed the limits of the previous setup you had?

Not bought the wepr hybrid kit. Just got the manifold and put a stock td04 on. The hybrid doesn't seem to have given me any extra gain for the extra cost.

I could have got a bit more from the previous setup, but not much tbh. A forged engine would have been a bit of a waste.

I'm also running higher compression than most people who forge, so would have thought I could have gained more power with less boost than others too!?

 

[SKINY]

Ahh, I didn't realise this was a hybrid turbo

 

[gorganl2000]

just a few things for us to think about with regards to the turbo.
consideration should be given to the area/shape of the curve of a stock td04 vs the hybrid tdo4...as well, it depends on the specifics of the "hybrid" unit,,,was it just a bigger compressor wheel, what type/design compressor wheel, was the turbine wheel enlarged to accommodate flow at higher boost levels, was it clipped, what type of bearings used, is the hybrid able to hold higher boost levels, where is it supposed to shine over the stock turbo, stock vs hybrid dyno charts for comparison from the seller, etc...the term hybrid can cover a wide combination of things supposedly aimed at improving performance in different areas....

my experience with the stock td04l on my ep91, it didn't hold boost at 20psi,,,it would bleed back off to 14/16 psi in the higher rpms (external wastegate plumbed back to exhaust)..though i thought it was a great everyday set up,,,excellent response and driveability
my experience on a friend's ep82 with a hybrid td04l (larger compressor wheel and compressor housing), it lost a bit of low/mid range and pulled like a train in mid/high rpms,,,great if you're a drag racer, i think he eventually switched back to a stock tdo4l

with a hybrid turbo, you really need to investigate to see exactly what you're supposed to be getting from it...even then, different set ups can cause variations

 

[SKINY]

Yeah true enough, I've seen celica turbos described as hybrid when they have only had the ceramic shaft changed for steel and roller bearings fitted
That's where the whole CT comes from, Ceramic Turbune
When I had my CT26 built in 2015 I was on the phone for a good while discussing what I wanted, I went for the works lol, bigger compressor and exhaust wheels and internal machining to match the bigger wheels. I have pics somewhere with it beside the standard unit and it's very different internally, it was specced for 380HP with a smooth delivery, only did 100KM on it then a piston said see ya fslool
Sold it to a Mate and it's on its way back, he never used it either just stored it lol

 

[dac69er]

boost held right to the red line (set at 7300rpm). the tuner did say i could probably raise my rev limit a bit. my concern is i have stock valve springs and still using the standard shims ontop of buckets so left it where it was for now. i would prefer to run the engine in for a few more 1000miles and then redo the valve clearances, then i may up the limit a tad if needed.

speaking with sacha at WEPR, he said i should be able to achieve 300bhp with that kit and my setup @1.4bar, hence why i was dissapointed as this was what i was expecting.
ive not really driven it much since it was mapped. so i do need to get more of a feel for it anyway to see where else i can improve on.

its a reasonable result, but just not for what i have put into it. an ebay manifold, downpipe and turbo would have probably given me the same end result at a fraction of the cost

 

[gorganl2000]

boost held right to the red line (set at 7300rpm). the tuner did say i could probably raise my rev limit a bit. my concern is i have stock valve springs and still using the standard shims ontop of buckets so left it where it was for now. i would prefer to run the engine in for a few more 1000miles and then redo the valve clearances, then i may up the limit a tad if needed.

speaking with sacha at WEPR, he said i should be able to achieve 300bhp with that kit and my setup @1.4bar, hence why i was dissapointed as this was what i was expecting.
ive not really driven it much since it was mapped. so i do need to get more of a feel for it anyway to see where else i can improve on.

its a reasonable result, but just not for what i have put into it. an ebay manifold, downpipe and turbo would have probably given me the same end result at a fraction of the cost

with a td04, the stockish rev limit should be decent, as its really a small/mid size turbo for the 4e/5e engine...i'm not sure how much you would benefit from a higher rev limit, but the dyno would show if there is anything in it...some have claimed to rev to 8000rpm with those aftermarket plug and play ecus, and some have claimed the stock cams/valve springs are good for 7500/8000 rpm,,,maybe someone can provide factual information in this regard that can help you make a decision

yeah, i think your engine will benefit from a decent run in period,, get everything well seated/sealed

over the years i've seen tdo4l and hyrbid tdo4l produce anywhere between 200bhpto 300bhp depending on engine set up, dyno used, gas type, etc. There have also been discussions, some very heated ones, on whether hybrid ct9/td04l are any better than the stock ct9/tdo4l. As i mentioned before, they are a lot of variable's to consider when it comes to dyno figures, take them with a pinch of salt and a reference point for future mods. The area under and shape of the dyno curves may be more relevant than the peak figures of the curves. I still believe that 260bhp is a decent power figure, especially since your hybrid is actually holding boost to the redline,,,it must be a great feeling to drive the car

on the last point..sometimes its better to spend the extra money to improve the likelihood of reliability/longevity, reaching your targets and to have peace of mind...if you plan to own the project for a long time, then in a few years, the investment is worth it over the stock/cheaper counterparts

 

[gorganl2000]

do you have any dyno charts you are willing to post?

 

[dac69er]

My ep85 has a random used td04 and an eBay manifold and downpipe and it has been going strong for 10 years with no issues.

It is quick, no doubt about that. I took it out today and struggled to use the power as it was so busy on the road

I'm happy with the car (apart from a few strange noises that worry me a bit), it's more the cost Vs outcome that has frustrated me as I could have done it cheaper and not lost anything.

I will take a photo of the Dyno printout tomorrow

 

[SKINY]

I remember when people told me I couldn't turbo my Rep for 300£ lol I very very nearly done it then the GT came along
Not sure what to expect when I get the tf035 kit on ? 180-200 ? No idea