Fuel economy

[chrisinflight]

I`ve an auto ep82 in 100% standard form. For mixed daily driving on low and high boost with O/D on and ECT off I`m getting 22 to 26 mpg. That`s BAD, very bad. That`s what my auto 3.0 td hilux off-roader did with 31" mud tyres fitted!

Can anyone help? Is it the lambda sensor? Is it running rich- Is there a fuel mixture screw like on carbs? I`m running normal unleaded fuel. All service items have been changed- all filters, fluids and belts. Car has been standing a long time but I have already used a fuel system cleaner and done at least 500 miles. Odo reading 105000 km. Please help, I need at least 30mpg!! I know the autos are worse mpg than m/t but only by a few! This past week now I`m getting more confident with the boost I got 220km for 28 litres unleaded.
Thanks,
chris

 

[Paul_JJ]

I`ve an auto ep82 in 100% standard form. For mixed daily driving on low and high boost with O/D on and ECT off I`m getting 22 to 26 mpg. That`s BAD, very bad. That`s what my auto 3.0 td hilux off-roader did with 31" mud tyres fitted!

Can anyone help? Is it the lambda sensor? Is it running rich- Is there a fuel mixture screw like on carbs? I`m running normal unleaded fuel. All service items have been changed- all filters, fluids and belts. Car has been standing a long time but I have already used a fuel system cleaner and done at least 500 miles. Odo reading 105000 km. Please help, I need at least 30mpg!! I know the autos are worse mpg than m/t but only by a few! This past week now I`m getting more confident with the boost I got 220km for 28 litres unleaded.
Thanks,
chris

I have an AUTO as well, but 1998 Glanza.

What auto gearbox have you got, model? the number is written under the bonnet - starts with TRANS

What tyres (make/size) have you got are they inflated properly?
What oil do you use? - try fuel economy (5w-30) if you don't go mental - will save on petrol.
Do you ran high or low boost most of the time? Low boost will drink more fuel!

The ECT is ALWAYS ON, you can't turn it off, even if no button press this is the economy mode, try to put in MANU mode (this is ICE and SNOW) and this will give you better MPG.

When was the last time the gearbox oil changed? 10 years ago?
If it's below 0C - try putting a cardboard in front of the radiator - this will give you better MPG as the car will heat up quicker!
How many litres do you use per 100 km - as you have yours in KM - this would give me a good idea of your economy!
Do you change the gears manually (1-2)? this will give poor fuel performance!
What kind of spark plugs have you got and when was the last itme you've changed them? - They affect fuel efficiency! Change the leads as well - will give better fuel economy and more power if your old one's are still original!
What petrol do you use? where do you buy it? try shell 95 ron or tesco 99 ron!
You can also setup your fan belts professionally with a gun - it will give you better fuel efficiency! Get rid of the air con belt put a straight belt to the power steering - can be bought in any local shop as the UK starlet NA has the same belt!

I've managed once to drive 180 miles and I had MORE than half a tank of petrol left! That was in cold conditions with a lot of snow and ice on the roads!

There are no screw - your ECU does it for you!

 

[matt walters]

mines near enough standard (mods-exhaust fmic and relocated filter) and i only get about 22 mate, doesnt seem to matter how i drive it or what feul, i use v-power nearly all the time and get 310km off a full tank (about 45 quid) its not auto mind. its better on a run, but not loads tbh.

 

[chrisinflight]

Hi Paul, Lots of questions so I`ve put the answers next to them. Thanks for your help!

I have an AUTO as well, but 1998 Glanza.

What auto gearbox have you got, model? the number is written under the bonnet - starts with TRANS A242E/ AXLE 562

What tyres (make/size) have you got are they inflated properly? BRIDGESTONE BLIZZAKS 175/65/14 AT 2 BAR.
What oil do you use? - try fuel economy (5w-30) if you don't go mental - will save on petrol. 10W40 SEMI-SYN.
Do you ran high or low boost most of the time? Low boost will drink more fuel! LOW TO WARM UP, DOWN AND IN SLOW TRAFFIC, HIGH ALL OTHER TIMES.

The ECT is ALWAYS ON, you can't turn it off, even if no button press this is the economy mode, try to put in MANU mode (this is ICE and SNOW) and this will give you better MPG. I HAVE AN ECT BUTTON LABELLED AS "PWR" TO THE RIGHT OF THE "MAN" BUTTON. MINES A 95 MODEL GT ADVANCE.

When was the last time the gearbox oil changed? 10 years ago? 2 WEEKS AGO
If it's below 0C - try putting a cardboard in front of the radiator - this will give you better MPG as the car will heat up quicker! IT HAS BEEN SUB-ZERO BUT SEEMS TO GAIN OPERATING TEMPERATURE AFTER ABOUT 5 MINUTES DRIVING AND HEATERS PRODUCE GOOD HEAT.
How many litres do you use per 100 km - as you have yours in KM - this would give me a good idea of your economy! 12.8 AT 22MPG.
Do you change the gears manually (1-2)? this will give poor fuel performance! NO, ALWAYS FROM DRIVE
What kind of spark plugs have you got and when was the last itme you've changed them? - They affect fuel efficiency! Change the leads as well - will give better fuel economy and more power if your old one's are still original! I FITTED STD. IiRIDIUM ONES.
What petrol do you use? where do you buy it? try shell 95 ron or tesco 99 ron! NORMALLY SHELL STD. UNLEADED
You can also setup your fan belts professionally with a gun - it will give you better fuel efficiency! Get rid of the air con belt put a straight belt to the power steering - can be bought in any local shop as the UK starlet NA has the same belt! yES, iVE STILL GOT AIRCON.

I've managed once to drive 180 miles and I had MORE than half a tank of petrol left! That was in cold conditions with a lot of snow and ice on the roads!

There are no screw - your ECU does it for you! YES, I THOUGHT SO.

 

[chrisinflight]

mines near enough standard (mods-exhaust fmic and relocated filter) and i only get about 22 mate, doesnt seem to matter how i drive it or what feul, i use v-power nearly all the time and get 310km off a full tank (about 45 quid) its not auto mind. its better on a run, but not loads tbh.

Hi Matt, thanks for the info. If everybodys getting the same or so then that`s fine! From the posts I`ve read on here I was expecting at least 30 for the auto and at a guess 34 for manual. Someone mentioned the more regular the car is used helps keep the fuel system clean.

 

[Paul_JJ]

Try putting 2.2 bar for all 4 tyres, when the tyres are cold! For a week or 2 see if changes anything!

Use HIGH boost all the time, the only way You would need the low boost is when you've been driving really hard - like on the track and then the turbo gets very hot and putting in low you will cool down the turbo a bit.

The cardboard in front wouldn't harm, not the massive one, but half the size of the radiator! Give it a try! It won't overheat - it's cold out there, touch the radiator if you want -)

When you drive on the A roads, try to get to the 60-65 pretty quick but don't exceed 3-4K RPM, you can control the gear changes by your foot. Get to 60-65 and the highest gear will kick in, then gradually slow down to 40mph - that would give you the best economy POSSIBLE on this cars/gearbox, with the RPM below 2K.

The OIL makes the difference!

I get on average 250 miles per tank, if I go crazy on the road, fast stop-start, you know I mean, I get 180 miles per tank - at least! If I go steady 77 mph on the motorway for a few hours, I get over 300 miles per tank!

A good friend of mine does 350 miles per tank every week!!! With manual gearbox and he is running over 180 bhp!!!!! With loads of mods!

Another thing to look after is the CALIPERS they tend to seize - so watch out! The manifold could be cracked - and you wouldn't know about it - that would give you POOOR fuel economy, any leaks in the exhaust as well!

A MINT condition Starlet would give 300 miles per tank of sensible driving NO PROBS!

PUT THE MAN button, it's an Ice and Snow mode! It will increase the fuel economy!

 

[Jay]

330-350kms to a full tank from mine. Did that standard and still does it now it's modified. Mixed driving roads in PWR mode with a heavy foot.

Keep it in MANU mode if you want economy as that's the low rpm setting.

Use super unleaded, keep the aircon off and the overdrive on.

Hope that helps,

Jay

 

[Amd1691]

Got a Glanza auto and drives on Normal ( manu off and power off)
All standard except from straight thru exhaust, Blitz Sus induction and Magnecor leads
oil - 10w40 , recent gearbox oil change
I get 102kms per 10lts of regular unleded petrol, haha got app that monitors petrol consumption,thanks apple.
dats average with mix of routes. motorway miles would times by 1.3
if I drive like a mug, wud get like 7km/l
Had a recent drastic fall in MPG, wud say due to weather, but with a good flush of the cooling system and new coolant, with cardboard in front of radiator, I get same mpg now.
Things to consider for good fuel economy - oil, tyre pressure, driving style ( hard acceleration and braking will increase fuel consumption).

 

[chrisinflight]

Thanks for all the tips! I`m doing 8km per litre. shite. I was using O/D off quite alot (especially for downhill braking) and LOW boost much of the time. I`ll try this all the time: HIGH boost, O/D on, PWR off. Gentle right foot. (that`s hard!) Brakes seem ok, it rolls in neutral easy enough, mani maybe cracked.- it is the original. It has been very cold and only do journeys of 10 miles or less to work and shopping. Maybe the gearbox oil, which is a huge volume, is not warming up enough on these short journeys. As mentioned, I have changed ALL belts, plugs, filters, fluids, new rad. water-pump, fuel pump. Will report back later after a bit more experimentation.
cheers,
chris

 

[Paul_JJ]

Thanks for all the tips! I`m doing 8km per litre. shite. I was using O/D off quite alot (especially for downhill braking) and LOW boost much of the time. I`ll try this all the time: HIGH boost, O/D on, PWR off. Gentle right foot. (that`s hard!) Brakes seem ok, it rolls in neutral easy enough, mani maybe cracked.- it is the original. It has been very cold and only do journeys of 10 miles or less to work and shopping. Maybe the gearbox oil, which is a huge volume, is not warming up enough on these short journeys. As mentioned, I have changed ALL belts, plugs, filters, fluids, new rad. water-pump, fuel pump. Will report back later after a bit more experimentation.
cheers,
chris

Chris,

The mpg is KM is counted L per 100 KM - that is the way of counting in Europe, Japan and the rest of the world apart from the UK and US. A good car gives around 6L per 100 KM (62miles), A new Prius gives 4L- per 100KM, a Big 4x4 normally gives more than 10-15L per 100Km, I have on average 8-10, and 6.5 on the motorways!

If you do around 10 miles a day - put a MASSIVE cardboard in front of the radiator - cover it all - TRUST me, you will save at least 10-20% of your money on petrol! It won't harm, it's cold outside, it simply doesn't get hot enough!

Lift the car up on the ramp or use the jack per wheel put in N and no handbrake - a spin the wheels - see if it spins freely - that's the way to check the calipers, I've replaced my rear ones and BLIND ME, I can put the car on N and roll for 1 Mile without touching the accelerator! Or from 80mph to 40mph it will take 0.5MILES in D.

It is wise to brake with O/D off, but it will drink more petrol, however it is safer to the gearbox and the brakes will last longer. Also it is HIGHLY not recommended to use it if you do LESS than 30mph (says in my book) - if you know that you will slow down in 0.5 Mile let's say and can do 50-60mph on that road - stay without O/D even if you get 3-4K RMP it will save petrol because it won't change the gear and everytime the gear changes it DRINKS fuel - so bear it in mind!

You could also give a rep. for everyone who helped you!

 

[Paul_JJ]

So did you manage to save on petrol mate?
Have you checked your calipers?

 

[chrisinflight]

Hi Paul, The economy seems to have improved abit with the milder weather. I`m also keeping things simple by having high boost on, overdrive on, pwr. button off.
(I like having no distracting lights on the dash. Only have the "D" for drive now!). It`s amazing how quick you get used to the boost. Just seems like a normal car now!) The brake calipers are fine- it rolls easy in neutral and I replaced the discs and pads for MOT recently. It`s that time of the month where I dont have any money till next week so I`ve just been placing £20 fuel in and not taking mileage reading. Seems to be doing better than 22mpg. Went on a nice run for 3 hours through Forest of Bowland last sunday which I think did the car good having a long run. Also running 2.2 bar in tyre pressure now. I`m also going to change the Lambda sensor soon. Think the poor economy is down to short journeys in very cold weather although I park in a garage overnight it has been freezing inside the garage.
Thanks for your help and I will post again when I fill the tank and do more miles.
cheers,
chris

 

[Paul_JJ]

Hi Paul, The economy seems to have improved abit with the milder weather. I`m also keeping things simple by having high boost on, overdrive on, pwr. button off.
(I like having no distracting lights on the dash. Only have the "D" for drive now!). It`s amazing how quick you get used to the boost. Just seems like a normal car now!) The brake calipers are fine- it rolls easy in neutral and I replaced the discs and pads for MOT recently. It`s that time of the month where I dont have any money till next week so I`ve just been placing £20 fuel in and not taking mileage reading. Seems to be doing better than 22mpg. Went on a nice run for 3 hours through Forest of Bowland last sunday which I think did the car good having a long run. Also running 2.2 bar in tyre pressure now. I`m also going to change the Lambda sensor soon. Think the poor economy is down to short journeys in very cold weather although I park in a garage overnight it has been freezing inside the garage.
Thanks for your help and I will post again when I fill the tank and do more miles.
cheers,
chris

PWR Button is horrible, it doesn't do much apart from keeping the gears for longer, but drinks fuel badly.
The oil would also contribute to the fuel economy 5W would help in the winter! Try to drive in MANU (MAN) all the time unless you want to overtake someone - I'm doing this at the moment!

 

[chrisinflight]

Well, here goes a fuel economy question to a discussion on the fascinating to me toyota auto Electronically-Controlled Transmission. I used the MANU button for the first time today. In Drive does it take off in 2nd, to 3rd to O/D 4th? I thought MANU stood for manual and the gear selected stayed in that gear. Used for extra traction on slippery surfaces. It`s better suited to an ECONOMY button as it still auto selects a lower gear or higher gear when in Drive with MANU on. It seems to only change gear quicker at lower revs. and seems to want to be in 4th as soon as possible. very quiet drive and you can almost feel the car sip petrol!
This leads to my next query- do you REALLY need NORMAL? (MANU off, O/D on, PWR off). why not MANU on for daily driving economy, O/D on and hit the PWR button for overtaking, sportier driving etc. Assuming stock high boost is on all the time. (That LOW boost button on the dash kinda gets ignored now)!
Paul, what does your manual say re: when to use all these buttons to be good for the engine and box?
cheers,
chris

 

[Jay]

My understanding after five years driving an auto GT:

Both buttons off - Normal mode, box acts 'normal'.

PWR button on - Power mode, kickdown is more responsive and revs will hold to redline.

MANU button on - Economy mode, box will stay in a higher gear and shifts are more sedate.

Jay

 

[Paul_JJ]

Well, here goes a fuel economy question to a discussion on the fascinating to me toyota auto Electronically-Controlled Transmission. I used the MANU button for the first time today. In Drive does it take off in 2nd, to 3rd to O/D 4th? I thought MANU stood for manual and the gear selected stayed in that gear. Used for extra traction on slippery surfaces. It`s better suited to an ECONOMY button as it still auto selects a lower gear or higher gear when in Drive with MANU on. It seems to only change gear quicker at lower revs. and seems to want to be in 4th as soon as possible. very quiet drive and you can almost feel the car sip petrol!
This leads to my next query- do you REALLY need NORMAL? (MANU off, O/D on, PWR off). why not MANU on for daily driving economy, O/D on and hit the PWR button for overtaking, sportier driving etc. Assuming stock high boost is on all the time. (That LOW boost button on the dash kinda gets ignored now)!
Paul, what does your manual say re: when to use all these buttons to be good for the engine and box?
cheers,
chris

Well the book says:

Both buttons OFF - Economy mode!!!!! Used for normal driving!
PWR - SPORT mode!
MANU (MAN) - Ice and SNOW mode!

Well now on my OWN experience! The manu IS TRULY ice and snow mode - and it's not just save on petrol it improves the traction on ICE ans SNOW, RAIN -)))
PWR mode - is totally useless - complete waste of petrol - as soon as I put this on - I can literally see my petrol gauge going down every time I push the accelerator -) Yes it gets to the red line - same with the "economy mode", better kick down? may be 5% better than the "Economy mode" - hard to notice (on my car) may be you have better experience! One thing for sure it stays for long in gears and doesn't change them very often - maybe good for the track -) but who will take an AUTO on the track? and at the end of the day - if I change them manually 1st,2nd then D - it would be faster and a lot more power than PWR button!

No button pressed is what I would normally use on the motorway and for overtaking!

Used to drive in "Economy mode" now I drive in MANU mode most of the time and does save on petrol pretty much!

According to my book - the low boost was designed to provide better traction in bad weather conditions -) also to be used when driving on the mountains!!! (Japan has a lot of mountains) - the TURBO gets A LOT more oxygen in on the higher altitudes (ever wondered the construction of the plane engines?) - so for some people driving let's say 3K miles above the sea level - it could be a surprise to get an additional Boost, which could lead to the accident - to prevent that the LOW boost was invented!

One more thing!!! It cools down the turbo - so it would be VERY clever after a hard drive - to put the LOW boost ON (if you've ever watched Starlet GT racing in JAPAN - can be found on the YOUtube - the driver puts the low boost ON as soon as the race stops - last seconds on the video!)

To be good for the engine and the box - would be a MANU mode -) as you will have low RPM most of the time, save on petrol and don't stress the engine - even if you go uphill it will automatically drop the gear - so the gearbox won't overheat!

Another thing is - having O/D off - would make your car faster, and put less stress on the gearbox! The book says that you have to be careful and don't use the O/D if you're going UP hill.... that would increase the life of the gearbox - and I would assume the engine as well - low rpm up hill - don't do any good to the engine either!

Forgot to add my dealer which I've bought the car from - SVA Imports - trading for years with JAP import and having most of them an AUTO - didn't know that a MANU mode is for Ice and SNOW he used that as a MANUAL so that would allow to change the gears manually - so when I was test driving my car and changed the gears - he told me that I can't do that and I suppose to use the MANU mode -) On which I explained to him about my book and what is the MANU actually for!

Electronically-Controlled Transmission - does it say - ECT-S on the dashboard??? Electronic Controlled Transmission - SPORT - and don't forget that the actual gearbox is hydraulic, but with sensors (inside the gearbox) and separate ECU to control the gearbox! I even have the gearbox diagnosis codes in my book when the O/D light will flash certain amount of times and give an error code just like an Engine Management Light for the Engine -)

 

[danb87]

nice gone from standard too a better spec, an tbh i have not noticed any increase in fuel usage. ive always driven the same out an the only thing i notice is now when i fill the tank up it costs more. but lasts the same amount of mileage well near as dammed anyway

 

[Jay]

maybe good for track -) but who will take an AUTO on the track?

That would be me.. lol

Which book are you reading from Paul, is it a Toyota branded item or one of those translated articles?

 

[Guye]

I absolutely love threads like this! I don't have an auto GT but I'm going to try some of the info out on my auto ae92

Just by reading I've realized I've been doing a few things wrong. Now to start sharing out rep....

 

[chrisinflight]

Thanks for the input everybody! I`ve got a much better picture of how it all works now. I`m sure many people with JDM toyota auto-boxes just ignore those two buttons as you have to admit it`s a tad complicated. I mean wouldn`t MANU mode on, O/D off change at the same revs. as NORMAL, O/D on. These gearbox modes must overlap eachother. I guess as long as you are not in MANU mode when climbing hills and if it`s steep turn O/D off , your OK. No mention of using the O/D button for downhill/corner slowing down which I sometimes do.
cheers for now,
chris