Garrett T series turbos . . Info input please

[bimboy]

Puffy and Spi run MHI. Those are the two fastest Starlets in Jamaica.

I don't know what Puffy's powerfigures are, but Spi used a MHI to make the what is pretty much believed to be the highest whp.
The second car was from montego bay via Japan.
The third was a 5E mini swap from Max
The fourth was posted here way back from a IhI
The fifth was another MHI

All five are 5E engines

Both the highest 4E figures (1st/2nd), until recently were by a K24 and a MHI. That record stood until last year surpassed finally by a Garrett.

Starlet tuning in Jamaica isn't new. We've been through the Garrett phase. There was a time when everyone was running a Garrett. It wasn't until people started seeing the better performance of the MHIs that people converted. As for cost, Garretts are still cheaper than MHI units. You can basically go to any junkyard and find a Garrett. The only expensive Garretts are the new GT series, which cost the same as the average MHI, and HKS units which are just Garrett in name only.

1. After all of that you finally admit that a garrett has the highest hp on a 4efte who cares about who had it before it is about who has it now!!!
2. Starlet tunning is not new anywhere in the world so what is your point.
3. Beter performance why? like I said you guys don't spec anything so therfore if you have a t3/4 that suits a bigger engine on a standard 4efte it will suck.
4. If you go to a junk yard and buy an old garett which is has a very old turbo design that you get from a 1970s bedford truck it is obvious that it will leak and blow quickly and have allot of lag.
5. Note well I never said the fastest starlet in jamaica has on a garett I said the 4efte with the most hp, which you admitted, after all the long talk has on a garrett.
6. I would bet my house and land spi car would be faster if he use a nice new well speced garrett.:haha:
7. Do you guys pick down garretts and look at wheel trim.
8.Do you guys have 5 or 6 different back and front housing in your garage
9. Do you guys ever by any new garretts.
If no to the last 3 questions you mitsu,turbo lovers from wheelsjamaica should stop talking ish bout garretts and find out for your self.

 

[bimboy]

Who told you Nissan guys don't complain about Garretts. How many high horsepower Nissans use pure Garretts. They are either using spec'd units or different turbochargers. The common upgrade in Japan/Australia is to get rid of the ceramic wheels and use steel ones. In the US its a swap to the 'disco potato'. In the UK its a GT series or HKS units. I've never seen a high horsepower car with an off the shelf Garrett. Its always some secret custom spec that you couldn't order from Garrett itself.

Just like how you have 'friends' that seeming don't have problems with them, I've got five that have made the swap to a different brand. My friend drifts using a GT series and it broke within a month of me saying it would.

I have seen Garretts break brand new out of the box after 5 dyno pulls.
I have seen Garretts spit their exhaust blades out of an exhaust (and that was on tape)
I have compared back to back runs of Garretts vs MHI several times.
Ask anyone in Jamaica which is the smokiest turbocharger, Garrett

The best thing I can say about a Garrett is that when it breaks it takes chip money to repair. The few people I know that don't have problems with them are either not running serious power figures or have unique units for their setup.

Like said before I have had many nissans, I dont need you to believe I know what I am saying, and I am sure that the garretts you speak about are.
1. Cheap ebay used turbos that get clean and sell as new
2. Ceramic back wheel turbos that nissan men know are not supposed to be used over 14psi :haha:

Now what to do is bring facts to the table, you will have to live with yourself if you lie. Get your friend to give you the store or link where he got his turbo from and let everyone see. I am sure he bought a cheap knock of gt series turbo

If you get an old turbo off a bedford truck and put on your car, you don't expect it to smoke ?

http://www.wheelsjamaicahost.com/wheels_forum/index.php?topic=66177.0
check that link guys proof of two things 4efte with the most hp uses a garrett and secondly the attitude towards garretts and progress different to the norm, stop discouraging progress !!

 

[hardcoreep]

1. After all of that you finally admit that a garrett has the highest hp on a 4efte who cares about who had it before it is about who has it now!!!
Obviously you don't read. The fastest Turbo Starlets in terms of drag times, circuit, and wheel horsepower use MHI units in the majority.

2. Starlet tunning is not new anywhere in the world so what is your point.
Again u NOT reading. Starlet Tuning is new to UK in relation to Jamaica. EP tuning in Jamaica peaked a while back and is on the downturn.

3. Beter performance why? like I said you guys don't spec anything so therfore if you have a t3/4 that suits a bigger engine on a standard 4efte it will suck.
You're the one that assumes this. I've seen stock MHI units outperform spec'd Garretts. Its not just about the peak figures, its about powerband.

4. If you go to a junk yard and buy an old garett which is has a very old turbo design that you get from a 1970s bedford truck it is obvious that it will leak and blow quickly and have allot of lag.
Obviously you believe we're idiots. Garrett's own technology is from WWII. They have not changed the design of their units in over 50years, something they themselves have admitted. Their major shift has been to go with ball bearing centre housings. The wheel/shaft/housing designs have not changed.

5. Note well I never said the fastest starlet in jamaica has on a garett I said the 4efte with the most hp, which you admitted, after all the long talk has on a garrett.
Please read 1

6. I would bet my house and land spi car would be faster if he use a nice new well speced garrett.
Actually he did, and and moved to a 25g to get better performance.

7. Do you guys pick down garretts and look at wheel trim.
Yes

8.Do you guys have 5 or 6 different back and front housing in your garage
Yes

9. Do you guys ever by any new garretts.
Yes. very few people buy used Garretts. You can buy them off eBay (real ones) for nothing or you can try any local truck store.

If no to the last 3 questions you mitsu,turbo lovers from wheelsjamaica should stop talking ish bout garretts and find out for your self.
One of the thing I always find with Garrett defenders is that they have/give very little information and prefer to attack the messenger than defend their product with facts. I've had this argument hundreds of times with people more experienced than I care to know and it all comes down to the same thing. And you don't seem to be able to read. People WERE using Garretts. They made the option to switch as an evolution in their expereince.

Let me ask this question of my UK friends, especially the importers. Of all of the modified EPs you guys have come across from Japan. How many have been found with straight Garrett turbo upgrades? Not the HKS units, an off the shelf Garrett.

. Ceramic back wheel turbos that nissan men know are not supposed to be used over 14psi

Think about this. Is there a MHI turbo that can't be used at 14psi.

You link again proves your comprehension skills. While 323whp is admirable, its not the highest hp Starlet, nor is it the fastest at anything.

 

[hardcoreep]

@ hardcoreep = Thanks for the input mate. I didnt think MHI turbo's werent capable, its just that never found any info like you've given above on them. Again the thing is choosing the variant / trim of the turbo suited to the 4efte. Im still searching into " what turbo " so once again thanks as im looking into the MHI & IHI units again

Here's my 2 cents.

1: In several back to back tests over the years I find that Garretts have a set behaviour. They spool later and peak earlier giving the car a very narrow powerband. What makes people love them is that their off boost performance is so poor, that when they get on boost it feels like a jet. So you get that turbo surge everyone likes. If you're going to be drag racing then this is the turbo for you, irrespective of trim. The lag will kill the wheelspin and the big mid-range will pull you hard.

2: Garretts also give you big power due to their design making them a great dyno piece to boast about. The problem stems from the narrow performance band. So you'll have 300whp, but you'll have it for 1000-2000rpm where ever in the powerband.

3: Customizing Garretts only changes the peak power output of the engine. Correct sizing wheel trim of a Garrett will maximize your displacement hp numbers, not change the set narrow behaviour.

4: Garretts are cheap and easily serviceable. However, the Garretts that provide similar performance to the MHI are sitting in the same price range as an MHI.

Now this is in relation to other turbochargers.

MHI units give better OVERALL performance meaning their powerband isn't as narrow, so you get power LONGER through the rev range, which is a BETTER trade off for driveability.

In my several years of constant research I found that Garrett users tend to have more problems NEW or USED than MHI turbochargers. I have no bias towards either, but the reports of breakages and smoking are way more common, not only in Starlets, but in Nissans, Mitsubishi, and Hondas.

My bottomline is that the MHI is better quality turbocharger which justifies its expense. Its a fit and forget unit that provides the best possible of all worlds in terms of power output driveability and longevity. You just have to choose the right unit, not play Lego like you do with a Garrett.

For further reference several of my friends do the Lego practice. They usually have two back housings sitting at home one for the street and the other for drag. A concept that I'm still to grasp because they could simply buy a MHI to do both.

What you can do is simply bring up the compressor map for the MHI and the Garrett you're looking to compare. That will settle the issue.

 

[bimboy]

points to note:
1.You refernce the point of compreshensive skill, it is funny if you read my post no where have I said that the 300+ powered 4efte is the fastest of anything, I said that the 4efte with the most hp in jamaica uses a garrett.

2. The ceramic back wheel turbos were not designed to run more that 14.7 psi that is why the wheels break off, ceramic wheels are light for response. so it is not a question of a mitsu turbo that can only run 15psi.

3. The only thing my link proves is that I bring proof, what have you proved, for example do you have a dyno graph of a well spec garrett showing a poor power band. The garretts you speak of with such power bands are poorly speced t3/4 on hondas and starlets.

4. Obviously you believe we're idiots. Garrett's own technology is from WWII. They have not changed the design of their units in over 50years, something they themselves have admitted. Their major shift has been to go with ball bearing centre housings. The wheel/shaft/housing designs have not changed.

I never said you were idiots, has the basic engine design changed, how old is the tdo4 design do you know? you should find out, all they change are the housings and wheels as well. You want me to go and bring the link of where you said that the T series turbo was from WWII I read enough on wheels jamaica to know.:haha:

Have you ever had a garrett? Is that a question you would answer, or would you just attack my comprehensive skills again with out doing so? And if so state what garrett from where and what condition it was in.

As I said before starlet tunning is not new anywhere in the world if you beleive that you were the first to make great steps in the english speaking world up to you. :haha:

Yes. very few people buy used Garretts. You can buy them off eBay (real ones) for nothing or you can try any local truck store.

You said very few people buy used turbos are you refering to in jamaica. Because if you are and you dispute this point again I will go on you forum and bring countless evidence that, that is not the case, you guys by allot of used turbos. Like you said before garretts are older, and a old used turbo will leak it is not rocket science. If you guys believe that it is too expensive to buy new 4efte pistons when performing a 5e swap and prefer to cut used pistons, I don't beleive you would invest in new turbo.

 

[HYBRID]

TBH i agree fully with Rory on this one..

MHi units are faaar superior to garrett turbos (in the sense of manufacturing quality & powerband).. in fact if ull notice NOT ONE tuner company in Japan opts for big spec garrett turbos (unless they are hks themselves) have a look at all the massive drag & drift spec series in japan most of them use greddy series.. which are essentially rebuilt & re-specced MHI units.. Greddy ONLY use the rear housing of some garretts for their larger than life size.. coz as they have said themselves there are no housings bigger than garretts..

take for example turbonetics.. very good brand & all use garretts.. do u want to know how many iv seen blown to bits at hal far raceway by escorts? now these are not ur ordinary t series turbos but (in theoory) higher spec lasting turbos.. which only offer one thing on a high power engine MASSIVE AR'S which is whats needed for a drag strip car running 40psi+ down the qtm..

To back my point, take 2 identically setup starlets just with a regulator & 330cc injectors, a greddy bcc the usual fmic etc.. on one car make the setup with a garrett t3(ar.48), & on the other an MHI Td05h-16g (as used by greddy in their units).. rolling start in 4th down the qtm.. the mhi will come in faster & fly ahead of the garrett.. (as has been proven many times) but then top end the garrett will gain...

sure if u have a drag monster like almost everybody in malta builds (as thats all we have) then yes the turbo of choice for u is a garrett.. boost it high & use launch control or anti lag (or just a good driver) a set of slicks & launch at 6500rpms.. then voila u have an amazing run.. lag once & all is lost...

something to think about really ...
kon

 

[bimboy]

Hybrid what you are saying might be true about japenese tuners but why?
where is garrett from? and where is mitsubishi from?

Understand that this is my problem, guys do no like to read (not refering to hardcoreep) they go and get a factory speced garrett and expect it to perform well, If you put a big td05 on a 4efte it will lag and behave just like a t3. Fact.

It is also not fair to compare a greddy unit and a t series turbo unless it is from turbonetics. Compare a t series turbo say the same.48 and factory spec td05 16g with supporting mods and repeat ur analysis.

 

[HYBRID]

Hybrid what you are saying might be true about japenese tuners but why?
where is garrett from? and where is mitsubishi from?

Understand that this is my problem, guys do no like to read (not refering to hardcoreep) they go and get a factory speced garrett and expect it to perform well, If you put a big td05 on a 4efte it will lag and behave just like a t3. Fact.

It is also not fair to compare a greddy unit and a t series turbo unless it is from turbonetics. Compare a t series turbo say the same.48 and factory spec td05 16g with supporting mods and repeat ur analysis.

perhaps i have not explained my last comparison well.. what i meant was an mhi (bone stock) td05h-16g vs a 0.48ar t3 .. not a greddy unit.. iv seen how both these perform down the qtm & i must admit that spool wise its as i said above..

& yes i know what ur saying about the garrett units.. most ppl just say t3 & think that there is just one t3 lol... but still personally i have never liked garretts, even though locally everybody wants one.. & yes they do give results, but what rory is saying is spot on, powerband wise mhi have a much wider & more useable range.. the main reason being is they play with wheel trims & internal ar's alot more than garrett do.. garrett do have options yes, but they tend to keep their housings a little to large to really be 100% useable.. well on the 4e anyways

kon

 

[turbospool@1krpm]

Iv not used but been in a few cars that have had MHI & Garrett units. Must say also that yes the Garrett punch is awesome whereas the MHI units also have a punch but not as hard as garretts, its like scattered more along a given RPM range.

Main thing is that both are good units, us being in the UK for me personally, MHI would be better option with much more availability of manifold / downpipe to match. Plus ( I might be wrong now ) but I think the MHI + IHI units combined, give you more different turbo trims to exchange and experiment with along with good availability / price where as Garretts not the same. This is in terms of not having to change manifold or have adaptors made up each time you trial a different turbo.

Finally guys theres no point arguing about such aspects, I say everyone should do own research etc and get the turbo they think is better / reliable / most powerful etc etc and then get the results / times to prove. We all got different thoughts and to prove whos made the best choice its results that matter plus what your happy with !

 

[hardcoreep]

Blitz uses KKK, which are German, so the 'theory' that JDM tuners are using turbochargers based on their country of origin is out the window. HKS Satellite shops use MHI units on their smaller turbo kits, for like Kei cars. HKS Kyshuyu is one such shop. Blitz uses KKK. Power Enterprise use IHI. Greddy uses MHI.

Bimboy has what we on WheelsJamaica call R&C problems. The problem is as I find with the average Garrett user is that THEY are the ones that are biased and seem to ignore the direct facts of the discussion. My information is from years of research via direct/indirect testing, and speaking with racers/turbo experts WAY more experienced than myself. I've never been one of those people that GET a figure and some attribute it to something ie: I hit my foot when a door opened, so whenever a door opens I should expect to hit my foot.

The bottomline is what you consider better and your application.

I think the MHI + IHI units combined, give you more different turbo trims to exchange and experiment with along with good availability / price where as Garretts not the same.

This depends on your location. I think UK and USA are big Garrett markets so you can easily source trims. For MHI units you generally don't have to swap housing for performance gains. Swapping wheel trims will yield the same effect as a Garrett. There are 14 wheel trim/sizes available for the td04.

 

[HYBRID]

Blitz uses KKK, which are German, so the 'theory' that JDM tuners are using turbochargers based on their country of origin is out the window. HKS Satellite shops use MHI units on their smaller turbo kits, for like Kei cars. HKS Kyshuyu is one such shop. Blitz uses KKK. Power Enterprise use IHI. Greddy uses MHI.

Bimboy has what we on WheelsJamaica call R&C problems. The problem is as I find with the average Garrett user is that THEY are the ones that are biased and seem to ignore the direct facts of the discussion. My information is from years of research via direct/indirect testing, and speaking with racers/turbo experts WAY more experienced than myself. I've never been one of those people that GET a figure and some attribute it to something ie: I hit my foot when a door opened, so whenever a door opens I should expect to hit my foot.

The bottomline is what you consider better and your application.


This depends on your location. I think UK and USA are big Garrett markets so you can easily source trims. For MHI units you generally don't have to swap housing for performance gains. Swapping wheel trims will yield the same effect as a Garrett. There are 14 wheel trim/sizes available for the td04.

my point exactly Rory...

more diversity, choice & driveablity with the same punch as the "way out of propotion" garrett turbos..

but thats just my opinion i guess ...

kon

 

[Sharagath]

How is the T20 compared to a CT9?
i got one laying around still form the first build

 

[HYBRID]

How is the T20 compared to a CT9?
i got one laying around still form the first build

we have a car here using one on a stock engine at 1.2bar.. seems pretty gud.. if i had to compare it id say its like a big ct9 hybrid with more top end..

kon

 

[Sharagath]

we have a car here using one on a stock engine at 1.2bar.. seems pretty gud.. if i had to compare it id say its like a big ct9 hybrid with more top end..

kon

oke sounds nice.

i will look it up and set it up for sale.

 

[gedis]

very good thread lads :rockon:

 

[turbospool@1krpm]

I think here in the UK although the availability of the Garrett / MHI units is good, the thing is most of us go for MHI units ( in particular the TD04L from wrx ) due to it being tried & tested way of making decent power on a stock engine.

Second point is, the availability of off the shelf manifold / downpipes for flanges to suit the TD04L turbo. I mean that for someone to opt for maybe a Garrett T3 in the UK that would involve getting a custom downpipe ( which is I think seen as hassle / more money ) hence why not many people go for it.

Us in the UK also don't have the love for the cars enough to be experimenting different turbos / setups individually too I believe. Guys from Malta on here for example have probably gained their knowledge through experimenting with different setups to an extent that has now seen them get great results on 1/4's. One individual of the Maltese has probably gone through more turbos than a handful of us UK guys. "Practice makes perfect", so simply we dont practice enough to get the results nor the knowledge/experience.

Thats what I think explains also why UK guys "believe" in the TD04L and a very few other IHI units ( that bolt to same flanges ) although my personal thoughts etc agree with hardcoreep plus the maltese guys who like to be different, who like to experiment, and actually are competition driven & motivated!

 

[bimboy]

my point exactly Rory...

more diversity, choice & driveablity with the same punch as the "way out of propotion" garrett turbos..

but thats just my opinion i guess ...

kon

No hybrid, how can you say more diversity with regards to mistubishi, when almost all of garretts parts are interchangable, with out any major modifications, and guys are you seriously trying to tell me nobody can build a garrett with a wide power band?

Rory if you don't mind me call you that, I am not biased, I have a tdo4 I was considering putting on in my garage, Before I decided to go buy my t3.
Also because a factory spec td04 suites a 4efte does not make it a better turbo than another, it simply suites the engine that is all, Does a t3 fall off the power band on a 5e ,NO. What about a td04. It sure does. Check back on this said same forum and you will see the guys discussing it fall off around or before 7000.

Also a point to note. I am sure one of you guys have a friend with a mitsuishi gsr 4g93t the td04L comes on that car standard. would you guy discuss the powerband that car feels like how a starlet feels with a ct9. The turbo comes on quickly and feels good at first but then the power falls off at around 6000 rpm. A very similar situation to the ct9 it think the rev limit is close to the 4eftes as well. I said all this to say that the turbo must suite the engine.

Many companies modify and produce garrett you cannot blame the brand for that, call all the ebay sources that modify and rebuild garretts, it is just a matter of knowing what you buy, as you guys would well know an orginal garrett t3 is not as cheap as it ebay counter part. So build quaility is a matter of you get what you pay for.

More reputable companies modifiy mitsu turbos and they cost more than orginal mitsu turbos in some cases.

Its just a matter of economcs older turbo cheaper to mass produce and modifiy buisness. Mitsubishi will eventually end up in the same boat as american consumers get a greater liking to them.

Oh and Rory you appear to be an analyitcal man, in stats as you well know you remove the outlayers then build you analysis, so when I put forward the argument that mitsubishi is from where? and Garrett is from where, You only mentioned one company that use foriegn turbos you should mention two or three more to validate your point if you were only dealing with a set of 10.

 

[hardcoreep]

lso because a factory spec td04 suites a 4efte does not make it a better turbo than another, it simply suites the engine that is all, Does a t3 fall off the power band on a 5e ,NO. What about a td04. It sure does. Check back on this said same forum and you will see the guys discussing it fall off around or before 7000.

My accessment that MHI are better is not based on its performance on the 4EFTE. I've been looking into turbochargers since I lived in Miami and planned to boost my third car, a Suzuki Swift GTi. When I came back to Jamaica everyone else was using Garretts at the time. I have and still believe that the MHI units are better and would always choose one over a Garrett.

I've done/been a part of two Garrett 5E builds. They all behave the same regardless. A Garrett has a horsepower curve almost like a S, and torque curve like a mountain. The MHI will have a hp/torque curve like slope. If you read the technical documents as to the differences between both turbochargers you'd understand this. Garretts don't have the blade designs (angle of attack) that MHI and IHI have.

I also have not been a fan of the td04L on the 4E. Its still too big for a 4E-FTE. I mentioned on this site and recommend to my friends the td04-13g from

Many companies modify and produce garrett you cannot blame the brand for that, call all the ebay sources that modify and rebuild garretts, it is just a matter of knowing what you buy, as you guys would well know an orginal garrett t3 is not as cheap as it ebay counter part. So build quaility is a matter of you get what you pay for.

You need to EXPAND your concept of eBay. There are many reputable shops that sell stuff on eBay. Its no different that advertising in magazine. I don't assume because its off eBay its 'cheap'. I've bought some very expensive crap there.

You only mentioned one company that use foriegn turbos you should mention two or three more to validate your point if you were only dealing with a set of 10.

I suspect you're not reading my posts properly.

HKS Satellite shops use MHI units on their smaller turbo kits, for like Kei cars. HKS Kyshuyu is one such shop. Blitz uses KKK. Power Enterprise use IHI. Greddy uses MHI.

Its just a matter of economcs older turbo cheaper to mass produce and modifiy buisness. Mitsubishi will eventually end up in the same boat as american consumers get a greater liking to them.

The reason for Garrett's success stateside is because they are the largest and oldest turbo supplier in the Commercial/Industrial vehicle market. This makes their units literally available everywhere. US Tuners just started to tap into that source when boosted cars became popular. MHI turbochargers will never be cheap, a fact they themselves admit, because they spend a lot in research and development and quality control. MHI was the one that started the use of exotic alloys on their turbochargers. Ball-bearing technology was developed by IHI. This is just a function of their home markets. MHI has not embraced the tuner market. Its turbochargers are still commercial applications modified by end users for the performance car market.

 

[bimboy]

Well I guess it will be very hard to come to an agreement on this topic but as I said before variety is what makes cars fun. I have a friend who has just rebuilt his turbo gti, and he has moved away from the td04 to a garrett I guess it is a matter of preference my issue with you is the bashing. I do not know of these leaky smokey garretts that you speak of.

I am reading your post correctly and you said that my argument with regards to mitsubishi being more popular in japan is not due to it home market influence, you said HKS Satellite shops use MHI units on their smaller turbo kits, for like Kei cars. HKS Kyshuyu is one such shop. Blitz uses KKK. Power Enterprise use IHI. Greddy uses MHI. And out of all of these shops you mentioned only 2 that use something other than mitsu turbos. The KKK and IHI, I don't know where IHI is from but kkk is not from japan. Hence my argument that it is indeed home market influence, hence my argument You only mentioned one company that use foriegn turbos you should mention two or three more to validate your point if you were only dealing with a set of 10.


The reason for Garrett's success stateside is because they are the largest and oldest turbo supplier in the Commercial/Industrial vehicle market. This makes their units literally available everywhere. US Tuners just started to tap into that source when boosted cars became popular. MHI turbochargers will never be cheap, a fact they themselves admit, because they spend a lot in research and development and quality control. MHI was the one that started the use of exotic alloys on their turbochargers. Ball-bearing technology was developed by IHI. This is just a function of their home markets. MHI has not embraced the tuner market. Its turbochargers are still commercial applications modified by end users for the performance car market.

Now I agree with your inital analysis because that is what i was implying when i said
Its just a matter of economcs older turbo cheaper to mass produce and modifiy buisness.

But mitsubishi turbos will get cheap! Technology always moves forward and older technology gets cheap the same thing that happened with garrett, 10-15 years ago how much was for a T3?????? In comparison to now, but anyhow that is a different discussion.

Can you bring a dyno graph proving that a well spec t series has a power curve like a S and a torque curve like a mountain. Vs a mistubshi turbo that has the O so gracious power and torque curve.

I agree that ebay has some good stuff that is one of the few places I shop for my car! Along with the toyota agents for certain things, but people generaly go for the cheapest things so when I say cheap ebay stuff, I mean cheap ebay stuff, not that ebay only has cheap stuff. And on the same ebay you can go look for nice well designed wheels for t series turbos, Fact. Wheels are not limited to garrett speced only stuff as you would well know. So the argument about the design of the wheels and turbo is only relevant if you go and buy a turbo straight out of the box, with out taking the needs of your project into consideration.

And if you have time could you please give me some info and the garretts your friends used on their 5e so I can compare notes and impove my soon to be 5e garrett only powered gt :haha:

In contrast to what you said I will always choose a garrett over a mitsubishi because..... they are cheaper I can get more parts for them, they are proven and if i want to focus on a track race, drag race or drive on the road, I can go and read and find a combo to blow any mistubishi turbo out of the water. For less money and more fun when that "mountain of torque finaly kicks in" lol

 

[wickedep]

great thread guys..both camps have valid arguments..but......

fact is..you can argue which is better till the cows come home..its all down to personal choice. i will admit one thing and that is if you are building a hybrid specifically for your needs then its much easier with the garret's because of the abundance of wheel trims/housings available.

sacha
wickedEP Racing