getting crazy with ignition timing

[azerty]

Hello all,
I'm having a very strange problem which I can't find the reason.

when I setup iddle timing (e1 te1 connected) to 10°, my distributor is all the way down.
the car is slow. if I move the distributor up so it is half way its adjustment range. then the car works fine, but timing light say something like 25° (approximative as it is off chart)

I did check timing belt, when the piston is all the way up. crank pulley is on 0°. and cam puley is well aligned to dots

two mecanics have opened camcover and said both cams were aligned togeither. so what is going on ???

 

[corofin12345]

probably wrong in this but what rpm is your car idling at... i noticed when i was doin my timing that the engine was idling at approx 750/800rpm and had this similar issue with the ditributor and timing marks.. when i turned up the idle screw to get 900rpm i got it spot on 10degrees with distributor half way..

 

[Ted]

bridging e1 and te1 is supposed to bring the car to a steady idle. these arent speedvision cams are they?

 

[azerty]

those are standard cams (fully standard head in fact)

 

[dac69er]

probably wrong in this but what rpm is your car idling at... i noticed when i was doin my timing that the engine was idling at approx 750/800rpm and had this similar issue with the ditributor and timing marks.. when i turned up the idle screw to get 900rpm i got it spot on 10degrees with distributor half way..

the timing is meant to be set at 700 rpm. if you do the timing with the car running higher rpm then your timing wont be correct!

 

[Sheldon]

the timing is meant to be set at 700 rpm. if you do the timing with the car running higher rpm then your timing wont be correct!

as far as i know when you bridge e1 and te1 it will go down to 900ish rpm. and you set the timing with the te and te1 bridged to get a steady idle.

you sure the timing light is correct azerty? as when mine was changed we where getting funny readigs then we noticed timing light was set wrong.

 

[Texx]

I don't know if you all have this sticker under the bonnet so I've taken a photo:

Ignition timing should be set at 10° with the engine warm and idling at 700rpm. Shorting TE1 and E1 stops the ECU making any spark advance adjustments or pulsing the idle control valve.


What sort of timing light are you using? If you set the light @ 10° the crank pulley should line up with the 0° marker, if you set the light @ 0° the crank pulley should line up with the 10° marker.

 

[Sheldon]

I don't know if you all have this sticker under the bonnet so I've taken a photo:

Ignition timing should be set at 10° with the engine warm and idling at 700rpm. Shorting TE1 and E1 stops the ECU making any spark advance adjustments or pulsing the idle control valve.


What sort of timing light are you using? If you set the light @ 10° the crank pulley should line up with the 0° marker, if you set the light @ 0° the crank pulley should line up with the 10° marker.

cheers for that!! im not sure if i have that.. if i do i never took notice what on it!

 

[azerty]

the timing light has no setting from what I remember, when used on an other 4efte it is all good
now, howcome my distributor is all the way done when setup at 10° ???
We have tried an other distributor, same results

 

[Sheldon]

the timing light has no setting from what I remember, when used on an other 4efte it is all good
now, howcome my distributor is all the way done when setup at 10° ???
We have tried an other distributor, same results

if im not wrong your running emu right? why not try discont the ignition signal from emu and bridge it again to be stock. maybe emu is altering something... easy job and worth a try

 

[Texx]

if im not wrong your running emu right? why not try discont the ignition signal from emu and bridge it again to be stock. maybe emu is altering something... easy job and worth a try

I agree. If your using a piggyback ECU, disconnect it and then try setting the base timing using only the stock ECU.

 

[azerty]

yep, I did remove EMU ignition timing control. not coming from emanage

 

[Texx]

It's probably the angle of the camera, but that photo above showing the cam pulley looks like it might be a tooth out?

 

[azerty]

the cam puley is slightly on the right as you can see as the dot on the head is slightly on the right too. both marks are aligned

 

[williamocarroll1982]

This isnt my area of expertise but does the fact that we have shit fuel over here not mean our cars should be idling slightly higher than on jap fuel at 10deg or am I talking out through my arse :haha:

 

[Texx]

the cam puley is slightly on the right as you can see as the dot on the head is slightly on the right too. both marks are aligned

I was thinking it may not be to the right enough, but as you say the marks are aligned so it must be where it needs to be.

Have you tried another timing light? I know you've checked the one your using with another car, but at least you can be doubly sure what your seeing is correct if another light shows the same reading.

 

[azerty]

Yes tex, the car has been sent to two mecanics confirming it is properly set up. which is not possible. I can't even move the distributor down enough to have 0° (just as an exemple, as I don't want ignition to be 0°)
and when on 25° the car is a rocket... while it should be detting all around. I'm lost

 

[madman]

best bet is whip off the bottom crank pully and check the belt has not slipped when putting it on it happens so easily as i know for a fact then you will get a definite answer if its out or not

 

[azerty]

hmmm, if crank puley would have slipped. top puley 4E mark wouldn't be aligned to the head mark when piston is at TDC. Am I right ?
cause right now it is aligned.

 

[corofin12345]

I don't know if you all have this sticker under the bonnet so I've taken a photo:

Ignition timing should be set at 10° with the engine warm and idling at 700rpm. Shorting TE1 and E1 stops the ECU making any spark advance adjustments or pulsing the idle control valve.


What sort of timing light are you using? If you set the light @ 10° the crank pulley should line up with the 0° marker, if you set the light @ 0° the crank pulley should line up with the 10° marker.

ya i tried this terry and i just couldnt get 10degrees.. was a mile out and to get it the distributor was way 2 retarded..(timing marks are perfect) when i increased the rpm to 900 with idle screw (warm idle) and started again it lined up and hasnt missed a hearbeat since..?