turbo help please

[matt walters]

The pipwork i have is 3" so spose that can add lag with so much space to fill but surely it shouldn't affect it by 1000rpm?

If a td05 is making ful boost by 4270 im 1000rpm behind that and i was under the impression that a vf35 was better spoiling than a td05?

 

[matt walters]

No leaks im aware of and I've checked everything. got a blitz dsbc ebc.

 

[animal gt]

let me guess your stock revs too?

 

[matt walters]

Stock revs in what way? The limiters stock but the turbo looses power before the limiter

 

[animal gt]

Stock revs in what way? The limiters stock but the turbo looses power before the limiter

yep so ur going to 7200? thats a shite powerband and no wonder the td04 is doing ya. but if you boosting full at 5k and fallin off before 7200 you have problems!

 

[Nick@TD.co.uk]

A turbo that size with an inlet etc I would expect to pull like a train once it gets going, all the way to the limiter.

What rpm is it dropping off power? and by how much?

Cheers

Mike Jones
Tuning Developments Ltd

 

[matt walters]

Just looked at the dyno graph. makes full power at 6900rpm and drops off after that. the link to graph is below

http://www.ukstarletclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53626&pid=691149&st=0&#entry691149

 

[Skalabala]

Yes there must be other problems then!
Cam timing?
EBC problems?
Was your tuner happy with your tune?
And a VF35 tends to boost earlier then a TD05

 

[Skalabala]

That dyno graph looks like a NA car hahaha

 

[matt walters]

Cam timing is correct to 4e.

He said the ebc was ok and he seemed happy with the power. the graph don't seem to gI've a true indication of what its like to drive cos there's defiantly a jump in power when it hits full boost

 

[AdamB]

Theres deffinitely something wrong mate. You've made good power but torque is down in my eyes.
There is a massive debate on the timing issue, but as a lot of people have stated, the 4E and 5E is 2 complete different engines, the 5E just has a turbo slapped on it. I would have it on the 5E marks.

I also agree with the race inlet, it has a larger volume to fill, but also have you had any headwork? Whats that like? Oversized ports will increase lag dramatically!
Have you done a compression/leak down test?
The large 3" pipework is a bit overkill, I wouldn't go any bigger than 2.75 and even then I would say thats pushing it.

As Animal said, you have such a short power band, if your not making full boost till 5k and the limiter is at 7200, there is something wrong there.
Can you get a pic of the ignition table up?
I would be looking at the EGT's, see if your having too little ignition advance or not enough.

4E timing marks, race inlet, 3" pipework, large cylinder ports, poor ignition advance will all lead to lag. With all this re-worked you could be looking at a steep reduction in lag.

 

[matt walters]

It is pretty heavily ported and polished tbh.
2
Where can i find the ignition table?

 

[matt walters]

Compression is 170 across all 4

 

[AdamB]

You'll have to get into the ecu itself mate.
Whats your compression ratio?
I don't think the cylinder head and pipework is doing you any favours mate, I would deffo get it swapped down to a 2.5"

 

[matt walters]

Im gonna have a look at what size it is. can't be 3" lol.

how do i find out compression ratio?

And I've got the emu software but i don't wanna fuck.it up plugging it in to my laptop?

 

[AdamB]

The compression ratio should be listed with whoever built the engine mate. You can work it out yourself if you know the specs, like cc of pistons, cc in head etc.
Don't think you'll mess with any settings mate, not sure with the emu but unless you start fireing away at the keyboard you shouldn't change any settings

 

[Skalabala]

A guess is that he is at 7.3:1
Pipe from turbo to cooler must be 2" and then from cooler to TB no bigger than 2.5"

 

[goldenvtr]

3" cooler piping is massive for our engines! im only running a combo of 2" hot side and 2.25" on the cold side, that will make a diffrence but probly not over 1000rpm. i would recomend 2.25" for best compromise

 

[goldenvtr]

thought i would add this a it may come in use.

few years ago i had a td04 at 0.9bar on my 5e fueld by 315cc injectors 4.5bar fuel pressure and an safc2 and it made 231bhp and 240ibft!
this was on 5e cam timming and stock ignition (as i had no way to adjust spark).

oh an a good comparison is this:

my exact same setup but on my old 4e engine:

so same turbo, boost pressure, fueling control ect all identical and the 5e made 240 ibft where as the 4e made a mear 186ibft!

power was a 30bhp increase and torque was 54ibft!

but this was before i decided to go mental for more power lol



i would expect at least 270ibft with your setup dude, maybe worth gettin adjutable cam pulley and doing a proper cam timming setup

 

[AdamB]

^^^ Think there may be a bit more to it than just the timing mate, aslong as the base timing is set correctly it wouldn't of made the decent power without good advance.
I do agree it should of made a lot more torque, but my theory is, that the intercooler piping coupled with the excessive head work is moving the peak torque way up in the rev range, and since being on the 4E timing marks this stands true. Knock it on the 5E marks where peak torque is made sooner will give a better base for a decision. The problem being that since the peak torque is being made so late/high up in the rev range the turbo is not able to be efficient at this boost/compressor wheel velocity, so kind of a stale mate situation.