who runs aftermarket ecu's?

[dac69er]

i can see what you mean in a way but the emanage or other piggybacks alter signals that go to the oem ecu (or whatever ecu you are using) stand alones use these same signals but work off there own maps. i kinda get where your coming from but they arent really the same thing

 

[gorganl2000]

What we want and what our budgets can stretch to or what we are willing to spend are different things.---AGREE

If you have tuners in your area or even country that are not familiar or dont have much experience with what you call a proper standalone, then is it still the best option to purchase this ECU rather than another standalone your tuner or country has years of experience with? After all, they do say they are only as good as the tuner.----FULLY AGREE

A standalone is a standalone..The mapping matrix that you have been mentioned may be superior on other standalones, some have more features and are more capable. Doesnt make the standalone with less features not a 'proper' standalone does it?----this is where i DISAGREEE....let's forget about the features (that's user specific)......some ecus are much more capable than others.....that's what i'm getting at........hence requires less compromising

I aint glorifying the Apexi or standalones either, I just dont agree with some of the comments you are making.----i know u aint justifying your PFC.....respect to that......and we are free to disagree/discuss options

I see where you are coming in your comments above thou.----thanks :rockon:

forgive me if i'm being the devil's advocate soemtimes.........lol.........i just want this topic to entail a lot of views........god knows i dont ever want to do this again lol---kind of like the "which is better ep91 or ep82" treads...lol

 

[gorganl2000]

For example?

could u have gotten the same result, performance, reliability from your OEM ecu and emanage (blue/ultimate)........that u got from your PFC........using the same set up

just an example by the way (PFC).....could have used some other popular ecu

 

[gorganl2000]

i can see what you mean in a way but the emanage or other piggybacks alter signals that go to the oem ecu (or whatever ecu you are using) stand alones use these same signals but work off there own maps. i kinda get where your coming from but they arent really the same thing

i'm not completely sure on that dac69er......the emanage does control somethings directly......it does not appear to work like other piggybacks and "trick" the OEM ecu..........but hopefully some1 can clarify that

 

[dac69er]

just becuase you can obtain the same results doesnt make the stand alone the same as a piggyback unit!

if you know what your doing you can add resistors, diodes, capacitors etc to all the sensor inputs to the stock ecu to give the same effect that a piggyback unit has and get a very good tune.

whatever way you do it makes no real difference, as long as it is setup right you willl achieve the same results.

with a standalone it gives more scope and your starting afresh when tuning it. with a piggyback you are still within certain constaints but in most cases these wont be a problem.

 

[dac69er]

i'm not completely sure on that dac69er......the emanage does control somethings directly......it does not appear to work like other piggybacks and "trick" the OEM ecu..........but hopefully some1 can clarify that

the emanage controls ignition itself by altering the output from the ecu. but because of the way the stock ecu works the timing is not always consistently correct!

 

[dac69er]

http://blogs.superstreetonline.com/6204615/editorials/stand-alone-ecu-vs-piggyback-ecu/index.html

 

[gorganl2000]

just becuase you can obtain the same results doesnt make the stand alone the same as a piggyback unit!---i will never be the same......as the names imply

if you know what your doing you can add resistors, diodes, capacitors etc to all the sensor inputs to the stock ecu to give the same effect that a piggyback unit has and get a very good tune.-----u could do that...if u did, what would u call that modified ecu then----standalone, preprogrammed, piggyback??

whatever way you do it makes no real difference, as long as it is setup right you willl achieve the same results.----not so sure on this one......the results may be the similar........but the differences may be noticeable--idle, fuel consumption, etc....or then again they may not be so noticieable lol

with a standalone it gives more scope and your starting afresh when tuning it. with a piggyback you are still within certain constaints but in most cases these wont be a problem-----not so sure here either....does the standalone always give more scope?? yes u are starting from scratch......but as i stated before, some standalones have restriction/compromise which may require the tuner to tune around such events--------how does that sound to u .

i like this........gives a lot of opinions/views

 

[gorganl2000]

the emanage controls ignition itself by altering the output from the ecu. but because of the way the stock ecu works the timing is not always consistently correct!

doesn't emanage also control injectors directly to some degree(in conjunction with ignition)......which is one of the areas that makes its a bit better than the usualy piggyback

as said in your line above......emanage is ok when being added to a ecu which already has been built for the purpose intended (example...the 4efte ecu is turbo......hence its easier to run emenage on the 4efte ecu and turbo aset up,,,,,,, than on a 5e ecu (which was not turbo) with a turbo set up.............u would be crossing over boarders here.....from n/a to turbo

however,,,,,many person have successfully/reliably ran the emanage and 5e ecu set up.........so it can be made to work --proven

 

[gorganl2000]

http://blogs.superstreetonline.com/6204615/editorials/stand-alone-ecu-vs-piggyback-ecu/index.html

seen that already.........makes some sense........but i dont 100% agree with it

 

[dac69er]

yeah, its not too bad, thats why i posted it up

 

[hardcoreep]

The Emanage came about because of the complexity of modern ECUs, base program, set ups, installation, etc. Calling the Emanage a piggyback is misleading, as it contains the majority of the functions of a standalone once equipped. Piggybacks in the traditional sense are like the SAFC which try and fool the ECU into a different map. The Emanage in its base form operates like a SAFC, but once fully expanded it is a standalone tuneable system. What the piggyback function does is allow the car's base program to operate. The Emanage becomes a gate keeper of sorts allowing the user to alter/reject the ECU programming. It doesn't fool the ECU. The ECU operates normally as its signals to the injectors/distributors are passed out. The Emanage allows you to alter the exit signals with little chance of ECU error.

 

[dac69er]

its still fooling the ecu though, so to speak. some signals it will alter that are going into the ecu and then others (like the ignition timing) will be altered from the ecu's output.
its using the ecu as a base and adapting itself round that. it is as close as you can get to a stand alone without it actually being one as it still needs the stock ecu to operate

 

[gorganl2000]

to me the emanage is KIND of like a programable preprogrammed/uprated ecu......hope that makes sense....lol......i see the emanage like the eprom board--but u have direct access to it, instead of only JAM, blitz, etc

the OEM ecu plus emanage combination seems relatively close to a standalone set up......in fact it has been reported to be better than "some" standalones

 

[hardcoreep]

its still fooling the ecu though, so to speak. some signals it will alter that are going into the ecu and then others (like the ignition timing) will be altered from the ecu's output.
its using the ecu as a base and adapting itself round that. it is as close as you can get to a stand alone without it actually being one as it still needs the stock ecu to operate

Once you have the harness for that function it alters only the output. The Injector harness runs parallel to the standard wiring. It alters the voltage the ECU sends to the injectors.

 

[dac69er]

Once you have the harness for that function it alters only the output. The Injector harness runs parallel to the standard wiring. It alters the voltage the ECU sends to the injectors.

thats what i said :S

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

For the ultimate tune nothing can compete with a good stand alone purely for the amount of sensors you can add and the amount of data acquisition you can retrieve, the possibilities are literally endless, were talking upwards of 1000 sensors with information you never even thought possible. Not saying that you need this but the choice is there.

For most something like Emanage will be fine or whatever your man can tune, Starlets are pretty simple at the end of the day and you don't really need complex management unless your changing huge aspects of the original engine, even then you don't need to go overboard. It's horses for courses really, this could go on for another year but at the end of the day one isn't better than the other as there are too many variables, too many people, too many different cars, too many different setups to define which is better than the other. I would argue that to build the ultimate car/tune then stand alone is the best option especially when outside Japan.

When we strap a TD04 on the run aorund (stock engine) we will be using Emanage on the stock ECU so we have both, both are good for our different needs!

T

 

[dac69er]

as long as you get whatever setup you have checked out buy a decent rolling road you shouldnt have any major problems, whtehr stand alone, piggyback, premapped ecu or a fcd and rrfpr setup

 

[Gee]

could u have gotten the same result, performance, reliability from your OEM ecu and emanage (blue/ultimate)........that u got from your PFC........using the same set up

just an example by the way (PFC).....could have used some other popular ecu

Some people are getting the same BHP figures simply by using a RRFPR, FCD, etc etc.

Some may use a piggyback and get the same BHP figure as soneone with a standalone. But is it all about BHP? Due to the peremeters a standalone ECU can control, does it not make your engine safer and more reliable? I read this on here some where. Maybe someone can elaborate as to why..?..Hardcore?

I'm sure you could of got the same BHP figures you have now using a more crude setup rather than your pre-programmed ECU. Can you tell me why you decided to go for that rather than the usual bolt on's and simply raising the boost?

 

[gorganl2000]

Some people are getting the same BHP figures simply by using a RRFPR, FCD, etc etc.

Some may use a piggyback and get the same BHP figure as soneone with a standalone. But is it all about BHP? Due to the peremeters a standalone ECU can control, does it not make your engine safer and more reliable? I read this on here some where. Maybe someone can elaborate as to why..?..Hardcore?

I'm sure you could of got the same BHP figures you have now using a more crude setup rather than your pre-programmed ECU. Can you tell me why you decided to go for that rather than the usual bolt on's and simply raising the boost?

see toby's response....."""""For the ultimate tune nothing can compete with a GOOD stand alone""""""......that's all i'm saying........all standalones are not created equal

like i said before to u........my preprogrammed ecu is kind of middle ground ....just like your PFC

u see......IMO there are:
1) OEM ecus
2) Preprogrammed ecu, piggybacks and moderate standalones
3) good standalones

maybe we could classify moderate standalones above preprogrammes ecu (and OEM ecus with piggybacks).....but they tend to be in the same region

nothing wrong if we have different opinions