Fuel economy

Jay said:

That would be me.. lol

Which book are you reading from Paul, is it a Toyota branded item or one of those translated articles?

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Jay - what BHP a u running? Why don't go to Manual if on the track? What is your 0-60mph? Going on the track with an AUTO... how many times did you cook your brakes? What brakes do you use?

The book is Toyota Branded!

The book is very rare and I've paid a fortune for that (j40 + postage from Russia)! Apparently Japanese Import is EXTREMELY popular in FAR East Russia as they're neighbours with Japan and to fix the cars they obviously need appropriate books! (Also many people trade with Japan out there and speak Japanese)! So I've managed to find a book about ANY starlet ever made between 1989-1999! The book is fully translated to Russian from Japanese and covers GT and Glanza models. It has all the diagrammes (still in Japanese, but with the translation of the the colour codes)! It starts with the basic stuff - how to take care of the car, then goes to explanation how do the things work - that includes the gearboxes, engine and pretty much everything about the car! Most of the stuff is a real basic - but as a Starlet N/A was my first car - I found the book very useful.

Interesting tips like - take off the oil cap when draining the oil it will drain quicker - nobody in the UK does it!
The oil has to be changed every 3K miles or every 6 months, but more OFTEN if you exceeded 100 mph for 2 hours or more!!!
The Gearbox oil has to be changed every 30K KM (18.75 miles) as well as the Oil filter on the gearbox (every 60K KM or 37.5K miles) ! - Again more often if you exceed 100 mph and if you SMELL that the gearbox oil is burned! - Use Dexron III instead of II as it says on the Dipstick - when the car was made the Dexron III wasn't available yet and it is fully compatible with Dexron II. - Yeah and I will make a separate thread on HOW TO CHECK the AUTO gearbox fluid level - Properly!


Here is how it looks like!
http://www.phorumka.ru/load/knigi/avtomobili/skachat_knigu_toyota_starlet_89_99_1612/74-1-0-1686

My oil filter on the gearbox hasn't been changed at 60K miles, I don't really plan to change it, but I will change the Fluid every year!


Thank you for the rep! Appreciate that!

chrisinflight said:

Thanks for the input everybody! I`ve got a much better picture of how it all works now. I`m sure many people with JDM toyota auto-boxes just ignore those two buttons as you have to admit it`s a tad complicated. I mean wouldn`t MANU mode on, O/D off change at the same revs. as NORMAL, O/D on. These gearbox modes must overlap eachother. I guess as long as you are not in MANU mode when climbing hills and if it`s steep turn O/D off , your OK. No mention of using the O/D button for downhill/corner slowing down which I sometimes do.
cheers for now,
chris

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Chris - you need to understand that O/D has nothing to do with ECT!!! It is a separate thing which is on MOST of the gearboxes (include those which has no electronic control - just the hydraulic gearboxes) - I'm sure you can google and read a lot about the O/D!

Here is pretty good explanation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overdrive_(mechanics)

As a rule of thumb - to put it simple - if you want to push the car to the limits - put the O/D OFF
If you want to save on petrol and you're on the motorway or the A road - put the O/D ON.

It doesn't matter what MODE a u on when going UP hill - if the O/D on it will give a lot of stress on the gearbox! That is why it will automatically change to the lower gear (so it will take the O/D OFF even if it's ON, but all you will see is the increase of RPM - it does it to save the gearbox) and then when you will go down the hill it will put it back on! But if you already know that in 2 min you will have to drive up hill - what I would do is to get as fast as the road legal speed is and keep the O/D ON but just before the hill - DON'T push the accelerator and if it's a small hill then you will make it uphill and will save some cash on petrol, if however the hill is massive/or you have to press the accelerator pedal - then turn the O/D OFF and save your Gearbox!

By the way - this is What I'm going to use for my AUTO gearbox -)

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-60163-f...tic-transmission-fluid-for-japanese-cars.aspx

Hopefully it will give me some extra BHP and keep the gearbox in good condition! - The Fluid in an Auto gearbox - is EVERYTHING! It's even more important then the OIL in the Engine - as the engine has a massive cooling system and the gearbox mainly rely on the Gearbox Oil to cool it down! It should in theory increase my MPG as well!

Dats wot I am using atm.
I used a cheap one to flush the tranny and then used dat one.
Could feel loads of difference in terms of torqure and power compared to cheap oil.
Recommended.

I prefer my manuals genuine, I'm not one to categorise but there's probably a un-translated russian section at the back explaining how hard to hit stuff with a spanner to fix it.

Here's a Toyota sourced explanation of the ECT (Electronically Controlled Transmission) for recent models which don't seem to feature the MANU mode:

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h16.pdf

If you experience the three settings you will find the main difference is the shift point at which the box upshifts. I've always found the MANU setting as the most relaxed setting, the Normal mode (both buttons off) as a happy medium, and the PWR as a "she canny take anymore Capt'n" redlining dogfighting attack mode. But that's just me lol.

I keep refering to both buttons off as 'normal'. You see the ECT was only introduced after 1992 and the early cars functioned with only the overdrive to mess with. The MANU and PWR functions were added after so when these are switched off you're back in the base setting without any special electronic influence.

Mine is running a modest 150/160 bhp, it was interesting and quite terrifying to experience the lack of engine braking on the first autobox hot lap. Still can't get the stains out of the seats..

Jay

in the dash of the car beside the air con button there econ i take it that has noting to do with fuel economy? or does it?? im getting between 33 to 39 mpg manual box

That`ll be the economy mode for the air-con. Your mpg is good and on par with others.

Jay said:

I prefer my manuals genuine, I'm not one to categorise but there's probably a un-translated russian section at the back explaining how hard to hit stuff with a spanner to fix it.

Jay

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I didn't get this sentence!

The books is clearly Japanese, what could be more Genuine than Japan Made literature about Japan made cars?

People don't read books these days "THEY KNOW BETTER"!!!

The engine braking is pretty good by the way (for an auto) just put it in 2nd if you want to brake with the engine - makes a lot of a difference, and below 30 mph get in in to LOW gear!

By the way I forgot to say - THE MANU mode - starts with the second gear! This is what every experienced driver of a manual gearbox car would do to start from the Ice!

Paul_JJ said:

I didn't get this sentence!

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Just injecting a little humour:

Legendary Russian

The books is clearly Japanese, what could be more Genuine than Japan Made literature about Japan made cars?

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Let's be blunt about this - it's not japanese.

It's a commercially translated adaption made in 2007 for a Russian company. Just like in the handbooks made for an Australian company I would take everything with a pinch of salt.

Genuine Toyota literature will be dated and stamped with a part number.

The engine braking is pretty good by the way (for an auto) just put it in 2nd if you want to brake with the engine

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Tell that to my co-pilot :haha:

I found the gearing much different, especially after using manuals for so many years on the same track. For example, decelerating the car from 90mph on a straight then throwing the box into 2nd gear for the fast approaching and rather tight hairpin on an auto didn't offer the same reduction in speed as the manual box ratios did. As you can imagine that was a bit of a 'brown' moment..

I'm not saying the engine braking is bad, just different to what I was used to. So it's more the driver than the car that was to blame. I reckon after a few good practise sessions to adapt to the braking points the experience would be more relaxing.

Paul_JJ said:

By the way I forgot to say - THE MANU mode - starts with the second gear! This is what every experienced driver of a manual gearbox car would do to start from the Ice!

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Yes, low RPM and early upshifts are the MANU mode's game. These are characteristics used in both low traction senarios and economy focused driving.

Jay

i get around 100 miles tops to 20 quids worth of tesco momentum (£133.9) a litre....not great really and thats mostly driving off boost...works out to be a tad over 30mpg which i suppose isnt too bad for the type of car it is! i get alot more on a long run driving at 70

Jay said:

Just injecting a little humour:

Legendary Russian





Let's be blunt about this - it's not japanese.

It's a commercially translated adaption made in 2007 for a Russian company. Just like in the handbooks made for an Australian company I would take everything with a pinch of salt.

Genuine Toyota literature will be dated and stamped with a part number.




Tell that to my co-pilot :haha:

I found the gearing much different, especially after using manuals for so many years on the same track. For example, decelerating the car from 90mph on a straight then throwing the box into 2nd gear for the fast approaching and rather tight hairpin on an auto didn't offer the same reduction in speed as the manual box ratios did. As you can imagine that was a bit of a 'brown' moment..

I'm not saying the engine braking is bad, just different to what I was used to. So it's more the driver than the car that was to blame. I reckon after a few good practise sessions to adapt to the braking points the experience would be more relaxing.



Yes, low RPM and early upshifts are the MANU mode's game. These are characteristics used in both low traction senarios and economy focused driving.

Jay

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You don't know how they do things in Russia, fully translated game which was made in the USA but have not a single word in English and the Russian company 1C would be selling it with their Logo - would be a fake as well???

Either way the book is for me and I glad I've got it, but I'm sure if I show it to any experienced mechanic who knows starlets and he would have a look at the pictures only he will confirm that this is not a fake -)

The pictures have japanese writings on them - that is good enough for me. Either way no books available in English I would buy one if it was for sale in Halfords! But no wait, those cars were Made for Japanese market only!


Why did you go AUTO if you had a manual for years???

churcherj said:

i get around 100 miles tops to 20 quids worth of tesco momentum (£133.9) a litre....not great really and thats mostly driving off boost...works out to be a tad over 30mpg which i suppose isnt too bad for the type of car it is! i get alot more on a long run driving at 70

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I've got around the same, the only advise I can give is to try to use STANDARD 95 Ron tesco and see if your mpg will change -) I'm pretty certain that you will have the same MPG, but will pay less for the petrol! It's not that car is drinks A LOT (if driven sensibly), it's the petrol cost a fortune!

Jay said:

Just injecting a little humour:

Legendary Russian

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____________OFFTOPIC_________________

Didn't get that -) probably never will!


____________OFFTOPIC_________________

T

You missed this bit chap:

Jay said:

Just injecting a little humour

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Meanwhile, back on topic, I have a little more to offer than my experience and the biggest stack of Starlet literature in Portavogie. How much faith people put in that is up to them.

I'm not doubting your info, I'd prefer to see more of it in fact. There are hidden secrets and unknown truths amongst such things. Tell you what, if you show me yours, I'll show you mine mate?

Paul_JJ said:

Why did you go AUTO if you had a manual for years???

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Long story short, Bought my first manual GT in 2000, bought another in 2003, bought my first auto GT in 2005, bought my current auto in 2006, bought a countless rake of breakers and projects in that time too.

I know I've only been driving these cars a short while but please give me a chance to work them out and I'll do you proud..

Jay

Jay said:

You missed this bit chap:




Meanwhile, back on topic, I have a little more to offer than my experience and the biggest stack of Starlet literature in Portavogie. How much faith people put in that is up to them.

I'm not doubting your info, I'd prefer to see more of it in fact. There are hidden secrets and unknown truths amongst such things. Tell you what, if you show me yours, I'll show you mine mate?



Long story short, Bought my first manual GT in 2000, bought another in 2003, bought my first auto GT in 2005, bought my current auto in 2006, bought a countless rake of breakers and projects in that time too.

I know I've only been driving these cars a short while but please give me a chance to work them out and I'll do you proud..

Jay

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Fantastic response jay, I had to edit my response as it wasnt quite as composed

Good evening, you guys have lost me! It doesn`t read so cool when youv`e had a couple of strongbows and doobies.
Anyway,
QUOTE: The engine braking is pretty good by the way (for an auto) just put it in 2nd if you want to brake with the engine - makes a lot of a difference, and below 30 mph get in in to LOW gear! QUOTE
That sounds cool, with all the electronic switch modes and a moveable gearstick it`s quite a manual thing hey driving one of these auto`s!
Cheers for now,
PS. filled the tank this morning and am experimenting. Going to go for a run this weekend.
chris

What is the mpg like Chris? I'm going for a record on my this week, this the combined driving and I've got 130 miles already and not even half a tank, about 35% of the tank -) In theory should go to 300 miles per tank -)

ive got an auto with mild mods and i get around 200m/320km off a tank of fuel with my standard normal driving i do get 250m/400km if its all motorway driving.
bareing in mind i have a MK1 so i only have an O/D switch and PWR or MANU button
i did notice a loss in my mpg when i put in an upreated fuel pump but nothing major.

and yes i am crazy enough to have had mine out on track as well and didnt really cook the brakes up that bad.
(tgtt llandow track day and trax (silverstone GP circuit))
also when i first got my GT before modding i did a 1/4 mile day as well with it.