can you run td04 on standard internals

Fatman

Fatman

Member +
Johnny_C said:
start what?it will go bang at 1.5 eventully,end of.
Click to expand...

They routinely go bang at a lot less too. It's not boost that kills them, it's detonation. Install a fuel cut defender, wind it up and pop goes the weasel on 0.6 bar.

Properly tuned a stock bottom end will hold 1.5 bar for a good long time.
 
S

Starbus

Member +
Johnny_C said:
start what?it will go bang at 1.5 eventully,end of.
Click to expand...


A few facts to go with your fiction.

Boost pressure isn't a set figure, every turbo is different.

There are many more factors to determin the cylinder pressures throughout the cycle and peak cylinder pressures. Fuel/timing mainly.

There is no reason for an engine to eventually go "bang" unless something changes.

Ignoring the fact that any detonation will kill engines VERY quickly, it's surprising how far you can push a properly tuned engine. We run 1.5 bar on stock Honda's with an 11:1 compression ratio.

Just because you had a bad or no experience it doesn't mean all engines will break at this boost. I've seen nearly stock cars throw rods.
 
Phil

Phil

Super Moderator
well aware you know your stuff starbus,

but johnny has a collection of bent chicken legs.

and he has an ecu none of this fcd nonsense.

i know that theortically it could work, its just when you say "if nothing changes" then the engine will be fine" but how fine a line are we talking here? plenty of checked and tuned engines go pop, so whats the secret? drive about with det cans on if the weather changes?

Phil
 
Fatman

Fatman

Member +
a tuner is only as good as his results, if Johnny's tune resulted in a set of bent rods then I would be looking for a new tuner.
 
Phil

Phil

Super Moderator
haha whatever you say, personally if the rods cant take the power/revs ill change them.
saves me swapping tuners every time a glanza rod trys a route one exit.

if we went by ^^that rule, forged internals wouldnt exist.

.

Phil
 
Fatman

Fatman

Member +
*shrug* changing tuner is free, a set of rods and a rebuild is pricey.

I've seen glanza rods lay down 360bhp without bending, I don't think it's that much of a limitation.
 
Last edited:
Fatman

Fatman

Member +
Phil said:
haha whatever you say, personally if the rods cant take the power/revs ill change them.
saves me swapping tuners every time a glanza rod trys a route one exit.

if we went by ^^that rule, forged internals wouldnt exist.

.

Phil
Click to expand...

Forged rods have their place, but if you're BENDING them other than from revs then it's an issue that's not going to be solved by putting stronger ones in there, you're just masking the symptoms. A rod doesn't progressively bend, all things being equal if it survives once it's likely to survive for quite a while - if they're all bent and it happens all at once it's due to a tune related issues. Pre-ignition can result in cylinder pressures an order of magnitude higher and is the only way I can see of bending a set of rods in the manner described.
 
Phil

Phil

Super Moderator
but you have set of bent rods.... changing tuner wont sort that for free.

so out comes the engine, split, new bearings etc for less than 200quid you can put forged rods in.. id be doing it.

i know you have hence why im not just going to laugh at your claims, i speak to ryan often and i believe him and his cars figures, you know my point about reliablity and difference in usuage so we can leave that in the other thread.

i dont want to start another whole UK vs the world in here.

will the rods take whatever you throw at it? yes
will they take it for extended periods of time not matter how you engine is treated, well no1 can say.

Phil
 
Phil

Phil

Super Moderator
over here ive yet to see a bent gt rod.

ive seen heaps of bent glanza rods (have some myself)

now this is over here where both cars are equally(in your opinion) badly tuned with whatever you want to believe, say lean fuelling and advanced timing running 2 bar on a ct9 mapped by a greengrocer using coconuts as det cans, whatever the circumstances, we have no bent gt rods and lots of bent glanza rods.

Phil
 
danb87

danb87

South East England Area Rep
cud someone pm me a list of exactly what i need EXACTLY please rep given for my 1st list thank you people
 
Fatman

Fatman

Member +
Phil said:
but you have set of bent rods.... changing tuner wont sort that for free.

so out comes the engine, split, new bearings etc for less than 200quid you can put forged rods in.. id be doing it.
Phil
Click to expand...

I see your point, you're definitely right on that count. While it's all apart (certainly on your side of the world) I would be putting in forged bits. Just be aware that our hypothetical engine, now equipped with forged rods, will still be potentially suffering from some extent of pre-ignition that caused the damage in the first place. It will no longer result in drastic failure like a set of bent rods, but it will damage the big end bearings (yes, detonation destroys bottom ends as well) and you'll likely have to pull the whole lot down again anyway.

Definitely not interested in sparking off another UK vs the world back and forth! Just trying to put some good info out there.

Phil said:
over here ive yet to see a bent gt rod.

ive seen heaps of bent glanza rods (have some myself)

now this is over here where both cars are equally(in your opinion) badly tuned with whatever you want to believe, say lean fuelling and advanced timing running 2 bar on a ct9 mapped by a greengrocer using coconuts as det cans, whatever the circumstances, we have no bent gt rods and lots of bent glanza rods.

Phil
Click to expand...

As above Phil, I'm not contesting that GT rods are stronger or that Glanza rods are comparatively weak, my point is that their failure is a symptom - not the cause.
 
B

buster1981

Member +
I have a tdo4 kit on mine.
Turbo (rotated)
Custom downpipe
RRFPR
Gizzmo boost controler
Front mount intercooler
Buddyclub exhaust

At 1.1 bar I made 216hp with fueling set slightly rich for safety as I have no aftermarket ecu. I have since turned the boost down to 1bar. Car runs perfect and is plenty fast for a road car. I would questimate that 1bar still see's me with 200 + hp.

Hope that helps bud
 
danb87

danb87

South East England Area Rep
buster1981 said:
I have a tdo4 kit on mine.
Turbo (rotated)
Custom downpipe
RRFPR
Gizzmo boost controler
Front mount intercooler
Buddyclub exhaust

At 1.1 bar I made 216hp with fueling set slightly rich for safety as I have no aftermarket ecu. I have since turned the boost down to 1bar. Car runs perfect and is plenty fast for a road car. I would questimate that 1bar still see's me with 200 + hp.

Hope that helps bud
Click to expand...


do you have to have turbo rotated?
 
billybob

billybob

Untrusted Seller
danb87 said:
oh really how comes? why does it have to be done mate?
Click to expand...

the tdo4s of different car are rotated to suit ,so you need to rotate the turbo to suit your car easy enough i try get a thread on how to do it and let you see:)
 
Johnny_C

Johnny_C

Lifer
my friend blew 2 engines,legs out of bed twice,once with ct9 at 1 bar,2nd time with tdo4 at 1 bar,pfc fcon used in both cases.fuelling was spot on as it was checked when the car done a power run.
i bent a rod before,but was runniung a fairly standard engine with few mods.
ive also seen standard glanzas blow rods through the block.
to think than a glanza rod,can run over 250bhp,and cope,is fucking rediculas in MY opinion.
theres a thread on here,of some1 who ran 1.4 bar on a stock engine,think it lasted 2 weeks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top