Freshly built forged engine leaking oil

[Peter.ep80]

Hi Everyone,

Hope you are doing well first of all. I am not that much active onto this site, but I do come here once in while to check some topics, updates and so on.

So basically the problem I am having is that Recently I've built a freshly new fully forged 4efte engine (My mechanic did the build) and for some reason it started to leak oil right away from behind the lower timing belt cover. I just finished the running-in for the time being.

The below is what has been done to try and troubleshoot the issue:-

• We removed both oil pump and sump twice and re-sealed.
• Pump oil seal and Crank oil seal were replaced twice.
• Removed top cover, camshaft plug and camshaft cover and re-sealed everything.

Funny thing is that when we removed the timing belt cover, we didn't see any oil or anything near the timing chain, or the pump or the crank but for whatever reason it leaks. The specifics of the leak is that it starts to drop from underneath the lower timing belt cover (between the sandwich plate at the crank) and the oil will end up going everywhere from the driver's wishbone, up to the steering rack. Now I've just ordered the oil pump bolts, just to make sure that we have replaced everything down there, but I am not that much hopeful. Once on another engine, I had oil leaking but just leaking a drop here and there and it was only the crank seal. We replaced that and was fine. The type of leaking I am having now its a bit problematic and looks to be a big one, considering its a freshly built engine. Timing belt cover will be a bit wet from the outside near the crank pulley.

Do you think it is worth taking out the engine, separating the block from the head and closing everything back together? Block has had the surface of the block face done, cylinders bore and honed, main strips, crank polished and balanced, head cleaned, ported and polished, machining of valves and valve seats, face and shimming, replacing of guides so pretty much everything. Head gasket, I used a Cometic one and pistons did them 74.25 oversize.

Have also attached some H.W. that i've done to compare and contrast everything related down there from a normal 4e to a 4efte engine. Any help, to what might be causing this strange oil leak, would be really appreciate it and thanks a lot to everyone

BR,
Peter

 

[SKINY]

Sounds like it's coming from behind the timing belt cover, sorry for stating the obvious what you have already wrote lol
Was everything well cleaned before assembly, proper Toyota gaskets, correct torque on everything ?
Just thinking out loud
You may have to leave the cover off and clean everything down then watch for it leaking

 

[Jay]

You may have to leave the cover off and clean everything down then watch for it leaking

This is the way.

If you don't know what you are aiming for it'll be X10 harder to find. Remove both the top and bottom timing covers and run the engine, sounds like the leak is quite severe so you should see something happening at idle, start at the top and work down checking the following areas:

Oil cap gasket
Inlet cam seal
Exhaust cam seal
Rocker cover gasket
Oil filter housing on front of engine
Dipstick tube O-ring
Crankshaft oil seal
Oil pump sealer
Sump sealer

You're looking for the highest point of the leak and tackling it first.

I don't think splitting the head off the block is worth the hassle tbh but you will see oil gathering at the headgasket if there's an external leak. Did have an issue with a sump that wouldn't seal a pile of years back, looked like the sump had taken a knock and twisted so wouldn't seal properly but that was a one-off.

Probably just a duff seal (even new ones can fail to seal occasionally) and the air flow through the engine bay has thrown the oil down and under the car. Hopefully it's just a quick replacement once you pinpoint the culprit and you can get back to driving her.

Any reason why you're cross-referencing 4EFE diagrams and numbers? I'd usually just order the 4EFTE stuff to suit.

Jay

 

[Jay]

Just running those numbers and spotted something with your crankshaft oil seal number:

15101A - SEAL(FOR CRANKSHAFT)​

90311-35035
(01/1996 - 04/1996)

90311-35040
(04/1996 - )

Looks like there's a choice of two depending on when the engine was produced. If you've fitted the 35035 it might be worth trying a 35040 in case there's a size difference. Probably barking up the wrong tree but still..

 

[Peter.ep80]

Sounds like it's coming from behind the timing belt cover, sorry for stating the obvious what you have already wrote lol
Was everything well cleaned before assembly, proper Toyota gaskets, correct torque on everything ?
Just thinking out loud
You may have to leave the cover off and clean everything down then watch for it leaking

Every seal was an original Toyota one. Everything was done using the correct Torque as well.

I was thinking about removing both covers as you mentioned and check whether it does it or no. Funny thing is when I drove it after I cleaned everything, up to 4kms it didn't leak any oil. Then I drove off another 4kms and saw that it started to leak slowly.

Will check again and will let you know. Thanks for your suggestion

 

[Peter.ep80]

This is the way.

If you don't know what you are aiming for it'll be X10 harder to find. Remove both the top and bottom timing covers and run the engine, sounds like the leak is quite severe so you should see something happening at idle, start at the top and work down checking the following areas:

Oil cap gasket
Inlet cam seal
Exhaust cam seal
Rocker cover gasket
Oil filter housing on front of engine
Dipstick tube O-ring
Crankshaft oil seal
Oil pump sealer
Sump sealer

You're looking for the highest point of the leak and tackling it first.

I don't think splitting the head off the block is worth the hassle tbh but you will see oil gathering at the headgasket if there's an external leak. Did have an issue with a sump that wouldn't seal a pile of years back, looked like the sump had taken a knock and twisted so wouldn't seal properly but that was a one-off.

Probably just a duff seal (even new ones can fail to seal occasionally) and the air flow through the engine bay has thrown the oil down and under the car. Hopefully it's just a quick replacement once you pinpoint the culprit and you can get back to driving her.

Any reason why you're cross-referencing 4EFE diagrams and numbers? I'd usually just order the 4EFTE stuff to suit.

Jay

Yeah, it seems like sometimes even original ones do not seal properly and I've heard it from a couple of people too! Problem is when I left it for a while on idle it didn't leak anything. It seems like once you start driving it after a couple of kms, that it starts to leak.

Am cross-referencing diagrams, cause I wanted to make sure that I haven't used the incorrect seal. The papers said the engine was a 4efte but tbh with you, the engine didn't have any oil filter relocation housing to it, and to my knowledge correct me if I am wrong, the oil filter relocation housing was only produced onto the 4efte engines, correct? In fact I had to do it manually at the engineer.

 

[Peter.ep80]

Just running those numbers and spotted something with your crankshaft oil seal number:

15101A - SEAL(FOR CRANKSHAFT)​

90311-35035
(01/1996 - 04/1996)

90311-35040
(04/1996 - )

Looks like there's a choice of two depending on when the engine was produced. If you've fitted the 35035 it might be worth trying a 35040 in case there's a size difference. Probably barking up the wrong tree but still..

Hi Jay, actually you are not barking up the wrong tree as in fact the first time round I believe we put the oil seal that was a bit smaller in size. Then we fitted the bigger but it still kind of leaked anyways and that is the reason why I was cross referencing different engines produced in different years just to be 100% sure.

I guess I would need to re-purchase the seal another time and leave the timing covers off, to see from where it is leaking but last time we removed the covers, the pump and crank seal were completely dry.

 

[SKINY]

The 4efte block has 3 bolt holes for the oil filter housing Bud

 

[Jay]

Yes, if you had to tap the three holes for the oil filter housing then it was a 4EFE block.

Just on that, any oil on the front face of the engine? (Airflow will take it backwards and coat a lot of stuff)

 

[Peter.ep80]

The 4efte block has 3 bolt holes for the oil filter housing Bud

I know. Mine didn't have that although on the papers it said that it was a 4efte engine. I had to have the holes drilled by the engineer, in order to fit in the housing.

 

[Peter.ep80]

Yes, if you had to tap the three holes for the oil filter housing then it was a 4EFE block.

Just on that, any oil on the front face of the engine? (Airflow will take it backwards and coat a lot of stuff)

I thought so. I don't know how then on papers its listed down as 4efte. What do you mean when you said oil on front face of the engine?
Thanks,

 

[Jay]

In that case it may be something to query with the engine supplier. There's definitely all three bolt holes from factory on a 4EFTE block.

Oil down the front of the engine just (just to remove turbo-feed/return, oil filter housing and front sump edge from the possibilities). The oil can move downwards and backwards so if there's anything on the front face it could be an issue.

 

[Peter.ep80]

In that case it may be something to query with the engine supplier. There's definitely all three bolt holes from factory on a 4EFTE block.

Oil down the front of the engine just (just to remove turbo-feed/return, oil filter housing and front sump edge from the possibilities). The oil can move downwards and backwards so if there's anything on the front face it could be an issue.

Works onto the engine has been done already now. So am gonna keep the block as it is. I've done everything to it. Will try to re-troubleshoot everything with timing belt coves off and will let you know the outcome.

Will also try to re-purchase the seals, as some mentioned that even if you purchase Toyota ones, sometimes they won't seal properly.