HKS FCD + Sard RRFPR or PnP ECU?

A

A L 3 X

Member +
Need some advice people, basically was giving the car a bit of boost tonight, and in 3rd I think, the EML came on when I was giving it wide open throttle, so i backed off, pulled up somewhere, let the engine cool before restarting to clear the light, but this means I was about to hit fuel cut surely?

Currently I have an air filter on the standard intake pipe, exhaust full system from cat back, boost restriction removed, HKS SSQV and HKS actuator running pretty much stock boost although I think it must be creeping since fitting the exhaust as that the last mod i've done, engine wise.

I plan to up the boost to 1 bar soon if i sort some fuelling mods out, am I right in thinking all I need now is an FMIC, and a ported mani, maybe port the wastegate as well, and a decat maybe?

My question is, should I go for one of these plug and play ECUs, or a SARD RRFPR and HKS FCD, and whats the setup procedure for both? Which will give the best and safest gains.
 
Tim@TBDevelopments

Tim@TBDevelopments

Lifer
emanage or something like a standalone Power fc is the best.

the blitz etc PNP ecu's are ok they will give a correct map above factory fuel cut but they are also setup for 101ron japanese fuel, they make more power by advancing the ignition to make the most of there high octane fuel. We just don't get that in our country so be careful. There also not sell mapping that is rubbish no ecu does that

hope that helps

Tim :)
 
A

A L 3 X

Member +
Hmm, the emanage or mappable Ecu is not really much of an option as I don't think there are Any well recommended mappers in my area, I also thought the Ecu as I will be making changes, however there are some
Risks, I assumed the standard Ecu was mapped to 101 octane fuel also, I will always fill up with v power when possible which is everytime
I've put petrol in so far, except once when I bought it had to put 97 Ron in but that was a one off


I really can't decide what to do myself :/
 
Tim@TBDevelopments

Tim@TBDevelopments

Lifer
the stock ecu is mapped to 101 but it runs so rich standard its ok to run on 99.

the blitz, and other fixed eprom ecu's that are plug and play make there extra power by the manufacturer taking advantage of that extra octaine, running more ignition advance, remove the limiters and run more boost. Because of this the running rich safety margin isn't there. don't get me wrong they run fine most of the time but if you get a bad batch of fuel (this is more common than people think) or overly cold day or something silly like that it can end in failure.

Where are you located? good mappers are hard to find, i travel 70miles to get to mine who does all my personal and customers cars. so don't be afraid to travel to get it mapped

Tim :)
 
A

A L 3 X

Member +
I see, do you not recommend one of these ecus then?

I really am confused now :( as for the mapping, I'm up in west yorks mate, I really don't have that much time off work thoug so was hoping for something I could do myself which wouldn't need redoing every time I add a
Mod :/
 
dac69er

dac69er

Super Moderator
mr2turbored said:
the stock ecu is mapped to 101 but it runs so rich standard its ok to run on 99.

the blitz, and other fixed eprom ecu's that are plug and play make there extra power by the manufacturer taking advantage of that extra octaine, running more ignition advance, remove the limiters and run more boost. Because of this the running rich safety margin isn't there. don't get me wrong they run fine most of the time but if you get a bad batch of fuel (this is more common than people think) or overly cold day or something silly like that it can end in failure.

Where are you located? good mappers are hard to find, i travel 70miles to get to mine who does all my personal and customers cars. so don't be afraid to travel to get it mapped

Tim :)
Click to expand...

the knock sensor still senses and will allow the timing to be knocked back if it picks up any knock, as per the stock ecu.

i cant say they are all the same, but when i first fit my jam ecu, its performs worse than the stock ecu, the power is very flat. the timing slowly adjusts itself over a period of time to a safe point and will act like the stock ecu making adjustments if the fuel is of a lower grade etc.
 
A

A L 3 X

Member +
Ah I see, are they basically a stock Ecu that have been modified as a lot look like that.

Could people that's had or has an Ecu give me some feedback how it worked for them, if possible how it compared to the fcd and fpr method of you've tried both?
 
A

AdamB

Member +
I have to agree with Tim, they are not as good as a programmable ecu, however for quite a few peoples setups and future plans they will do just fine IF YOU GET IT CHECKED ON A WIDEBAND. Never assume to just plug the ecu in and it will do all the hard work because it won't. Get it checked by a tuner, ensure that it's still running within safe limits for your setup.
 
A

A L 3 X

Member +
Ah I see, and as long as its fine on there I should be okay? Or do I need to get it checked regularly incasE it adjusts itself?

A mate of mine on here has a wide band and and offered to set up an fcd and for for me, so surely I could get him to check out the a/f with a pnp Ecu?

And would I be best getting the a/f checked after every mod I add or will the initial check be okay?

Thanks
 
Tim@TBDevelopments

Tim@TBDevelopments

Lifer
dac69er said:
the knock sensor still senses and will allow the timing to be knocked back if it picks up any knock, as per the stock ecu.

i cant say they are all the same, but when i first fit my jam ecu, its performs worse than the stock ecu, the power is very flat. the timing slowly adjusts itself over a period of time to a safe point and will act like the stock ecu making adjustments if the fuel is of a lower grade etc.
Click to expand...

you do realise that when the ecu detects knock it will adjust the timing to compensate but won't actually put it back. this is why if you run your tuned starlet on crappy fuel and the stock ecu retards the setup to stop itself blowing up and you then put good fuel back in the car will still feel flat. you need to reset the ecu so it'll look at the situation all over again and adjust from there.

The stock ecu also doesn't just see knock at 5200rpm and 5300rpm and say well I'll pull 1 degree from that area to stop knock and then its knock at 6500rpm to 6600rpm i'll take 2 degree there. It sees knock and goes BAM 3degree's (for example) across the whole rev range. If it still sees knock it'll drop another degree off the WHOLE rev range. so for a couple of points that are getting knock usually around peak VE's that only needs a tweek in fuelling or ignition it sacrifices the entire revband. so yes makes it safe on that peak knock area but then looses you 10-15bhp (again for example) everywhere else where the map was perfectly fine to start with.

Hope you see what I'm saying

Tim
:)
 
Tim@TBDevelopments

Tim@TBDevelopments

Lifer
A L 3 X said:
Ah I see, and as long as its fine on there I should be okay? Or do I need to get it checked regularly incasE it adjusts itself?

A mate of mine on here has a wide band and and offered to set up an fcd and for for me, so surely I could get him to check out the a/f with a pnp Ecu?

And would I be best getting the a/f checked after every mod I add or will the initial check be okay?

Thanks
Click to expand...

get it checked now and then again after every other mod.

the other issue i don't like is you can check it now and fuelling will be fine, get a cold day and it might not be. injectors might be maxed out on a hot day, temp drops and it has no more to inject.

again another thing to check is the knock, you don't have any means of knowing if the ecu is pulling timing to defend itself, you might test and its all fine but the ecu might be retarding the hell out of the engine just to stop it blowing up.

its tricking ground for sure, especially when these PNP ecu's aren't even designed for your car, its a generic glanza with "similar mods" which they don't ever tell you or anyway of finding out because its 2nd hand and aren't made anymore. i do mapping and i can run 2 cars back to back with exactly the same mods and the map will look totally different from one to the other. so no idea how they make these maps perfect when you don't even have the same mods on the car, its a different car, different fuel, different country with different atmospheric conditions and altitudes. all plays a huge part in the way the map works. even altitude sea level the 10,000ft above sea level the turbo supply's about 20% more mass airflow despite showing the same boost.

Tim :)
 
R

Rev

Member +
The old pnp vs dial your own hp. You seem to want 1 bar which posts say is ok in your cold climate. I like the freedom to mod the pnp and you can always dyno it and sell it later when you have got your mods in place and go standalone for more power if you need. I guess there is some risk, it's suck and see and your are going for more expensive fuel too but I don't get the stock injectors maxing out at 1 bar bit, surely there is a known temperature for this and I suspect it is less than - 20degC ?
 
A

A L 3 X

Member +
Cheers for the replies everyone, on my phone so cant quote individually but I'm now leaning towards a pnp but I'm still unsure what is best lol :/

Rev said:
The old pnp vs dial your own hp. You seem to want 1 bar which posts say is ok in your cold climate. I like the freedom to mod the pnp and you can always dyno it and sell it later when you have got your mods in place and go standalone for more power if you need. I guess there is some risk, it's suck and see and your are going for more expensive fuel too but I don't get the stock injectors maxing out at 1 bar bit, surely there is a known temperature for this and I suspect it is less than - 20degC ?
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm aiming for around 1 bar on ct9 for now, and yeah I use v power mate.
 
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