can a starlet or glanza ever handle like an EK9

[GTti]

Luke - for the Clutch example, it's the material choice that generates the friction with the deficit of surface area, it is far more abbrasive and will work at much higher temperatures

Yes the material is different but it's also exerting the same amount of force from the pressure plate on a smaller area (Say 3 pucks) creating the "bite", which was previously spread over a wider contact area.

I think that is pretty comparible to tyre width and compound etc

 

[Dan3SGTE]

This thread is a very good read, read every single post here.....

 

[riko666]

Yes the material is different but it's also exerting the same amount of force from the pressure plate on a smaller area (Say 3 pucks) creating the "bite", which was previously spread over a wider contact area.

I think that is pretty comparible to tyre width and compound etc

to an extent - paddle clutches are also much lighter though and have much less rotational inertia than Organics and so on...

Tramlining also depends on suspesion setup, but you will find wider tyres tend to exaggerate the effect

 

[Gee]

i personally feel that the starlets power steering provides plenty of feed back

It can be improved a lot.

Thats the thing GTti, everyday car = parking in tight spots etc.

 

[Gee]

Was the EK9 modified to the same extent?

To be fair, the title of the thread is:

Can a starlet or glanza ever handle like an EK9?

Not a modded EK9.

 

[Dan3SGTE]

i never thought i'd agree but this Non assisted steering converion is taking my fancy more and more.. I really like the idea... The steering is way too light when i think about it... and for the power of the car i need more feedback as it sometimes feels VERY dangerous, even in a straight line with the torque steer... it swayes in 4th gear alot.... doesnt feel right....

 

[hardcoreep]

-Can you make make your Starlet with the same amount of modifications/adjustments better than an equally modded Civic? NO

First of all you believe that Honda has worked some magic to make the EK9 handle. Its hasn't. They've used the same suspension theory anyone else can, its just that they've built it in from factory. This is the premium you pay in price for the EK9 over the EP.

Now a basic set up, better dampers and a rear sway bar will put you up there with the EK9. If you were to mod the cars exactly the same the EP would be faster, why, two reasons 1)weight - The CTR is 1040kgs while the heaviest EP is 960kgs. 2)The CTR is tuned from factory. Even if you change the wheels you affect its handling as many have found out. Its not a car you can simply slap on stuff to and make it handle better. As Spoon themselves said the best mod for the CTR is to make it an 1800cc and get the ITR 4.7 gear ratio.

I also don't consider myself some great driver, but driving the EK9 over the same stretch of road it was clear to see that my EP was way better in every aspect.

 

[Pierros]

First of all you believe that Honda has worked some magic to make the EK9 handle. Its hasn't. They've used the same suspension theory anyone else can, its just that they've built it in from factory. This is the premium you pay in price for the EK9 over the EP.

.....

If you were to mod the cars exactly the same the EP would be faster, why....

Well first of all I didn't found something "magin" in the OE setup of the CTR or overrated the handling of the Civics (imagine that most enthusiasts here believe that they handle medium to crap ). But as you said, is factory built with a better and more "fresh" theory regarding the suspension setup.

On the second part, I never told that the Civic's were going to be faster from an EP, cause this obviously doesn't have to do only with handling.

 

[gv1.3]

I do have to agree that there seems to be this mystic vision of Hondas being fantastic handling cars. I have driven a stock Integra type R which I have heard being referred to as one of the best handling front wheel drive cars ever built... I didnt find it particularly impressive. I have said on here before that my girlfriends 7th gen celica which is stock handles far better than an Integra type R in my opinion.

The only thing the 82/91 have going against them is the live back axel. There is no doubt that the stock suspension setup on these cars is at best interesting when driving fast... they just do not handle well.

My car has TRD coilovers and while it handles pretty well I think the wheelbase of the car doesnt help much when cornering quickly... Ive gotten my car sideways on roundabouts etc but it never steps out without warning.. you get tire squeel and then it progressively gets louder letting you know it could let go. I like that because you get a chance to correct before the back tries to overtake the front.

In my opinion there are far better handling cars available and if handling was a huge issue I wouldnt get a GT or an EK9...

 

[mikeylove]

but as the title of this thread says can my glanza ever handle as well as a EK9, the ek9 just happened to be the car with the most impressive handling i have been in and want the glanza to be the same if not better

 

[59bhp]

Yes the material is different but it's also exerting the same amount of force from the pressure plate on a smaller area (Say 3 pucks) creating the "bite", which was previously spread over a wider contact area.

I think that is pretty comparible to tyre width and compound etc

yeah because pressure = force / area so even with the same force on less area ya get more pressure.

 

[riko666]

Mikey - it's very difficult to say "How can I get my car to handle as a good as X" because...their suspension setups are vastly different and they will always handle differently. I don't think many people at all on this forum have a concept of what "Good handling" entails, but rather think a very grippy chassis is all this is requisite of "good handling".

That being said, the EP chassis is very light (which would give it an upper hand in terms of agility with regards to the EK9), and throw a lot of various modifications at it and get it professionally aligned, and sure, you will get a well handling EP, that is far grippier than standard (Tyres are very important), but perhaps not really suited to country road driving - despite the opinions of some, the Beam Rear Axle, will ALWAYS be a hindrance on a bumpy road. Maybe not to an extent to where it can't be driven fast, but an IRS equipped car, with the same level of modification (and for sake of comparison, same weight), will always be able to travel faster on a bumpy road without undo unsophistication from the rear axle.

All the netsperts will tell you to do the same thing - Anti-lift kit, ARB's, Coilovers, Adjustable Panhard Rod etc...and to be honest, that'll be more than you need. But you cannot compare (accurately) the distinct handling capabilities of a Double Wishbone/Independant Rear Suspension (I think also Double wishbone) sprung car, with a MacPherson Strut/Trailing Arm Beam Rear Axle car. Without going too indepth, think of it this way - Unsprung weight at rear of EK9 comprises of the wishbones, shocks, brakes, wheels, hubs. On the EP you've got the shocks, brakes, wheels, hubs....and a whopping huge axle too. Which is going to react quicker, maintaing traction with the road surface longer, react with a bump at individual wheels better...

But anyway, you can get the EP to a very high standard, perhaps one that could even surpass the EK9 in terms of grip, but I think the EP Chassis is just not known to be able to do with mundane settings, what manufacturers can do with far better settings to start with

 

[SaRfI]

good thread lads .....

Q."can a starlet or glanza ever handle like an "?? yes if not better then stock ek9 handeling.

my car handles fine as for the MODS i have if not like on the "RAILS"

if it was for handeling i Wouldn't choose EP. .

and tbh i have driven a "ep" on "stock" suspension and handling is disgrace on stock "ep" IMO

 

[hardcoreep]

On the second part, I never told that the Civic's were going to be faster from an EP, cause this obviously doesn't have to do only with handling.

My personal assessment of speed contains handling. I doesn't matter to me that the car is faster on the straights, what's important is that the car maintain the speed through the corners and that's the difference.

Looking at the EK9 from an engineers point of view. The CTR is lower, stiffer and has a matched set of anti-roll bars. That's it.

Once I added the panhard rod the judder, and nervousness in the rear disappeared. The road we raced on was of the lowest quality you can think of and after I could see why the CTR couldn't keep up. It has a very harsh suspension for only the flatest surfaces. I've driven the new JDM CTR and that to me is a far better ride quality than the old EK9 CTR despite being just as stiff.

I've spoken to several suspension experts and as far as they're concerned ALL PRODUCTION SUSPENSIONS are flawed. I've spoken to car designers and their reason for IRS is not handling but space demands. I have long come to the conclusion that no suspension design is better than the other. When Tein made a Vitz pull 1.02gs, a car with a 'worst' suspension design than the EP, its how you modify it.

 

[Gee]

Do Cynos come with beam suspension?

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Riko is spot on really, it's not ideal to start with but yes with the right tuning and selection of parts you can make them handle like the majority of top end FWD's out there.

It's hard to say which is better, which is worse, there are many variables not forgetting that these were designed as city cars for the shopping and not track cars that you can do your shopping in like the Type R's but like anything you can be up there with the top of them. Not also forgetting that a car is only as good as it's driver

T

 

[mikeylove]

right then toby sort me out with a good deal on d2's then mate lol that would be a good start

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Personally I would stick with Koni Adjustables and a good spring combo like WL or Tein, for daily and occasional track use they can't be beaten especially as they are adjustable, that's based on UK roads. I've heard of a few problems with D2 but none we've sold thus far.

T

 

[Adam_Glanza]

with my new car ive just bought they came with teins coilovers, and tbh even tho they do take corners alot better, sometimes on bouncy roundabouts etc it actually makes it worse because you end up skipping around it and doesnt make me feel that confident, maybe ill get used to it but at the second i actually prefer my old suspension which was just tein springs on standard shocks i think!

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Do you know what the spring rates are Ad? You just need some lower ones and a good setup

T