GT-TD04
Supermoderator
mainly because you probably went from stock wheels to the 17's on the corsa and the have bigger arches i think,can't see it making a lot of difference either way though.
As to why,dunno tbh,ask riko lol
can a starlet or glanza ever handle like an EK9
- Thread starter mikeylove
- Start date
mainly because you probably went from stock wheels to the 17's on the corsa and the have bigger arches i think,can't see it making a lot of difference either way though.
As to why,dunno tbh,ask riko lol
GTti
Member +
I have coilovers that are identical/similar to D2
Spring rates:
Front 6kg per mm (Or 335.9 lbs per inch)
Rear 4kg (223.9 lbs per inch)
The car is polybushed
OEM strut brace
OEM front and rear anti-roll bars (Already quite heavy duty)
Spring rates as you can see are very solid for a light car
, no PAS so you can feel whats going on.I run neutral toe on the front and some toe-in on the rear to aid the front steer in when cornering. Also maximum camber on the front and and a little camber on the rear to allow maximum tyre contact on cornering.
None of this has been tested by myself, but is the basis of a good handling car on a track - and proven by other members.
With a starlet being so similar I should think an identical setup would suit.
The weight of our cars is a very good advantage in the corners. Not only can you brake late, accelerate early but there is less lateral transition of weight - and if you have the car setup for cornering then you can fly.
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sx_turbo
Lifer
I have coilovers that are identical/similar to D2
Spring rates:
Front 6kg per mm (Or 335.9 lbs per inch)
Rear 4kg (223.9 lbs per inch)
The car is polybushed
OEM strut brace
OEM front and rear anti-roll bars (Already quite heavy duty)
Spring rates as you can see are very solid for a light car
I run neutral toe on the front and some toe-in on the rear to aid the front steer in when cornering. Also maximum camber on the front and and a little camber on the rear to allow maximum tyre contact on cornering.
None of this has been tested by myself, but is the basis of a good handling car on a track - and proven by other members.
With a starlet being so similar I should think an identical setup would suit.
The weight of our cars is a very good advantage in the corners. Not only can you brake late, accelerate early but there is less lateral transition of weight - and if you have the car setup for cornering then you can fly.
what would be the maximum camber?
i have read and been told that 2 degrees camber would be ideal for street use.
i know u said yours is setup for track use. im just curious
GTti
Member +
I've not had it measured yet. I would think its over 2 degrees but below 3. I doubt 2 degrees is any good for the road though - thats a substancial amount imo.
Running camber and running on roads that are mostly cambered with pull you all over the place. And wear your tyres out.
Running camber and running on roads that are mostly cambered with pull you all over the place. And wear your tyres out.
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Franza1
Supermoderator & Area Reps Manager
The idea compromise of camber between tyre wear and handeling on a street car seems to be around the 1.5degree mark. That's what mine is set to. I still get a bit of pulling to one side due to the camber of the road but nothing major. I still get a bit of understear but it's very predictable. i'm running a 1.5 way LSD aswell.
as for the The 17 inch alloys Read Here for a little write up about it i did a while back > http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/showthread.php?t=64
as for the The 17 inch alloys Read Here for a little write up about it i did a while back > http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/showthread.php?t=64
riko666
Member +
Was the EK9 modified to the same extent? If so, you can't really compare then can you? And beating people...it's still a question of the skill of the driver...you cannot presume everyone has the required driving skills
An EK9 is twitchy? Fark - at high speeds, the EP/EL Chassis as standard is lethal
And Ricky - I would argue the fact on Steering as I feel there's very little feedback unless at the limits of steering lock in fast cornering...but I've had Dan drive my car when I was banned in Le Mans, and he commented on how lighter the steering was than his. Mind you, "steering weight" is not to be confused with feel
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Gord R
Member +
A mistake a few people make im my opinion. Going wider on tyres and "over tyring" can have a negative effect , steerling feel can be lost , and understeer may become more apparant, certainly in front wheel drive stuff.
For sure transmitting power to the tarmac a wide tyre will improve traction/grip but for cornering its a much different ball game.
I went from 205's to 195's on my 206 and the difference was very noticable. The 195's were a vast improvement.
By all means, going wider than stock size will be of advantage buts in important to get the balance right between too wide and too narrow. Im facing that decision at the moment, my glanza has come into the country with 225's on 8x16 wheel which seems rather wide.
Franza1
Supermoderator & Area Reps Manager
Man that is massive, I'm running 195/50/15
sx_turbo
Lifer
hmmmmm
well im running 2 degrees (well prob closer to 3) and it does handle very well and i dont have any pull from road cambers.
the inside of the tyre does wear quicker though
riko666
Member +
too wide won't garner more understeer - you're physically putting down a greater contact patch, but understeer would probably be a lot more sudden then a thinner tyre as you won't have the give of the tyre to shift the contact patch quite as much
Ricky - tramlining (the car pulling onto road camber changes) is more of a result of wider tyres and lsd's, not camber of the front tyres
Rory - on the live axle point, true, on a Smooth race track, the different would probably be negligible, perhaps even giving the advantage to the beam rear axle as a) you have a much greater amount of stabilising weight in the suspension itself, and b) having minimal geometry changes at the rear axle, you won't be susceptible to high loading geometry changes (toe-out etc) which could create a nervous rear-end. However, bumpy road, hard suspension, beam axle versus independant rear....no contest, whatsoever if you have lets say, race drivers (cause everyone always seems to be "better" than someone despite their minimal credentials...) driving each...
Ricky - tramlining (the car pulling onto road camber changes) is more of a result of wider tyres and lsd's, not camber of the front tyres
Rory - on the live axle point, true, on a Smooth race track, the different would probably be negligible, perhaps even giving the advantage to the beam rear axle as a) you have a much greater amount of stabilising weight in the suspension itself, and b) having minimal geometry changes at the rear axle, you won't be susceptible to high loading geometry changes (toe-out etc) which could create a nervous rear-end. However, bumpy road, hard suspension, beam axle versus independant rear....no contest, whatsoever if you have lets say, race drivers (cause everyone always seems to be "better" than someone despite their minimal credentials...) driving each...
sx_turbo
Lifer
i must admit my first car was a mk2 fiesta, and the only other car i drive is a peugoet partner, so any thing feels better than those lol
Pierros
Member +
To make things more simple...
-Can you make your Starlet handle like a normar EK9 Type-R? With some modding YES.
-Can you make your Starlet handle better than most Civic's? With more heavy modding and right adjustement YES.
-Can you make make your Starlet with the same amount of modifications/adjustments better than an equally modded Civic? NO
Although with the right setup Glanza's can do miracles in the track (as well as they can do in the streets), Civic are also a notable opponent.
I've seen a street legal EG9 Civic with a K20A swap (modded at 245bhp), running the track, 1sec slower than a time EVO8 with 400+bhp, both driven from tha same pro-driver.
Of course the Civic was well prepared and made the brand new semi-slicks that was wearing, useless after 200km, but he got he did a hell of a job.
Anyway back on the subject, with some decent coilovers, front and rear strut braces, swaybar and lower arms, a panhard rod, upgraded clutch, a good (1.5 preferably) LSD, good brakes, lightweight wheels and some sticky rubber (15/195/50 or 16/205/45) and most important the right settings in all of these parts, you won't believe how the car will handles!
-Can you make your Starlet handle like a normar EK9 Type-R? With some modding YES.
-Can you make your Starlet handle better than most Civic's? With more heavy modding and right adjustement YES.
-Can you make make your Starlet with the same amount of modifications/adjustments better than an equally modded Civic? NO
Although with the right setup Glanza's can do miracles in the track (as well as they can do in the streets), Civic are also a notable opponent.
I've seen a street legal EG9 Civic with a K20A swap (modded at 245bhp), running the track, 1sec slower than a time EVO8 with 400+bhp, both driven from tha same pro-driver.
Of course the Civic was well prepared and made the brand new semi-slicks that was wearing, useless after 200km, but he got he did a hell of a job.
Anyway back on the subject, with some decent coilovers, front and rear strut braces, swaybar and lower arms, a panhard rod, upgraded clutch, a good (1.5 preferably) LSD, good brakes, lightweight wheels and some sticky rubber (15/195/50 or 16/205/45) and most important the right settings in all of these parts, you won't believe how the car will handles!
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GTti
Member +
Are you sure? An organic clutch has more surface area but provides less clamping force than a paddle clutch.
I think there is a balance to be had. But running a medium width tyre will spread the contact but also maintain the force in that contact area which should encourage grip. I suppose it depends how much force you will be transfering to the tyres.
A very wide wheel and tyre will probably contribute to understeer in regards to weight more than anything else.
My GTti is responsive to road camber with 185 tyre widths. The tracking was done by myself but is pretty accurate and steers perfectly straight
59bhp
Member +
i think the steering feel/feedback on a stock chassis isnt brilliant but its made 100 times worse when putting bigger wheels and tyres on.
I was always wondering why people were saying that the steering is awful when ive drove cars that are much worse, then i put the 15's on and i see what everyone means. Just an observation ive made really but i suppose its easily sorted.
I was always wondering why people were saying that the steering is awful when ive drove cars that are much worse, then i put the 15's on and i see what everyone means. Just an observation ive made really but i suppose its easily sorted.