Engine rebuild querys

[WallaceGlanza]

Hello!

I've finally got round to stripping the original engine from my glanza which went pop back in 2008! I suspected it to be the head gasket at the time but due to me being pissed off with too many problems on that engine I chucked a new one in the car instead and the old engine was left in the garage under a table.

So with the other engine now dying too one of them needs rebuilt, I've stripped the original down and found it is indeed the head gasket which had blown:



My plan is to get this engine back in the car and running asap so all I want to do is change the bare minimum ie just the head gasket, however there are a couple of wee issues I've noticed.

Firstly there is some strange pitting on piston 2 and the head in the same mating area:







What would cause this? Something rattling about the cylinder?

A little more concerning to me is what appears to be corrosion in the bores of cyl 1 and 4:





You can feel this with your nail and it also seems to cause a bit of resistance when turning the engine by hand, I've not tried smoothing it with anything other than a rag. Is this a problem? I assume this is from the engine having sat for years without oil but generally the engine seems in good nick otherwise.



Finally I found this lovely snotter of what appears to be either a weld or excess casting blocking one of the water channels which can't have helped the cooling:



Any advice is appreciated, cheers.

 

[Jay]

Looks like classic detonation marks on top of that piston mate...

The bore damage could be related as well, certainly would need addressed as part of the rebuild.

 

[WallaceGlanza]

Funny that the det is only on the one cylinder as there are barely any marks on the others.

As I mentioned I'm just wanting this running as quick and cheaply as possible, the other engine will likely get a proper rebuild with new bits. So do you think a re-hone would be enough for the bores? (Obviously a bit hard to tell without actually measuring the bore at the damaged areas!) I'm really not wanting to get them bored and change rings etc

 

[5e colin]

better off doing a full strip down the bearings wont be in good shape either give the bores a quick hone and recheck

 

[dac69er]

I would get the head skimmed flat. Clean the piston and head up where it is damaged as best you can. Hone the bores and stick new bearings in it.

That should get it running ok for the short term.

Make sure you check valve clearances when you rebuild.

 

[WallaceGlanza]

Suppose I better do it properly! If I'm honing the bores will it be ok re-using the piston rings, I wasn't planing on taking them off the pistons anyway.

Also I take it all bearings, big end, main and thrusts should be changed out?

 

[Jay]

Have a good look at the ringlands on that piston too mate, detonation can put a fair bit of stress in the wrong places.

 

[5e colin]

the acl bearing kit is only 120e delivered from zisco uk !!!!! rings get them for the 5e on egay

if after the hone there is still a gap it will have execive blow by and drink oil !!!!!

 

[dac69er]

Suppose I better do it properly! If I'm honing the bores will it be ok re-using the piston rings, I wasn't planing on taking them off the pistons anyway.

Also I take it all bearings, big end, main and thrusts should be changed out?

I honed the bores but used the same rings and it was fine. Just made sure I cleaned the pistons up with degreaser so the rings moved freely, esp the oil control ring.

Mains, big end and thrust bearings will be fine. Just buy cheapish bearings if it's temporary.
If the head has been sitting dry for a while I would change the valve stem seals as a minimum as they will leak.

 

[Murray]

That isnt DET on that piston. You have had a foreign object kicking around in there. Is that one of the bores that the headgasket blew on?

 

[Jay]

Actually ignore me - Murray is right, that's where the metal bits of your headgasket have ended up. Must be getting senile in my old age..

 

[WallaceGlanza]

I thought it looks more like something has been impacting the piston and head however it's not one of the bores where the gasket blew, it's piston 2 showing the damage and gasket went between 3 and 4.

I honed the bores but used the same rings and it was fine. Just made sure I cleaned the pistons up with degreaser so the rings moved freely, esp the oil control ring.

Mains, big end and thrust bearings will be fine. Just buy cheapish bearings if it's temporary.
If the head has been sitting dry for a while I would change the valve stem seals as a minimum as they will leak.

Ok that's good to know. I think the valve stem seals were already leaking a bit before the head came off, so again probably a good idea too.

I'll pull out the pistons and check the condition of rings and ring lands, then check the bearings whilst there. If I can get everything cheap enough I may aswell do them whilst it's in bits.

 

[weeJohn]

Problem I see with honing those bores until those marks go is you will open the bores up slightly. With the old rings already a bit worn, the ring end gaps may well open up beyond spec, that can lead to poor cylinder compression and crankcase pressures from gasses passing the rings. If I wanted a good engine to put in my car, I wouldnt be doing what you say to that one. I would at least replace that piston and the rings in all cylinders, skim the head and deck of the block and as said above, fit new valve seals and check the valve clearances after lapping the valves.

There is loads of casting flash in the oil return and water ways, before it goes for honing, grind them off with a dremmel or the like as the cleaning process after honing will flush any residue away.

 

[WallaceGlanza]

New piston rings are fairly cheap actually and I was a bit concerned about the original ones re-sealing onto the re-honed bores so will probably get new ones.

This is the first engine I've stripped down and tried to rebuild so I've got a bit of learning to do!

 

[Skalabala]

That is exactly how detonation looks. A good way to know is that the "chipping hammer like" marks are more concentrated at the valve areas!
Any ridge on the bores?
Definitely have the head and block skimmed.
You can buy a 4efe gasket set. But it must be of a reputable brand like Victor Reinze.
And any reputable brand crank bearings will hold as much power as ACL over priced bearings. You can buy 2E or 4E cranks bearings as they are the same thing.
Make sure the oil pump is OK.
Do not use an old messed up torque wrench
And important, when the build is done and running make sure there are no detonation problems.

 

[Murray]

That is exactly how detonation looks. A good way to know is that the "chipping hammer like" marks are more concentrated at the valve areas!
.

No its not. The piston has CHUNKS out of it, not chipping

 

[weeJohn]

Doesnt look like det to me either, I would guess a broken tip from a spark plug.

 

[WallaceGlanza]

Well I ordered a few bits to get on with this - new rings, head gasket, full bearing set, stem seals etc however when stripping the engine down further I've found more parts will be needing changed!

When taking the rings off the first piston this happened...



And no it's not the piston with the det/impact marks, the other pistons actually look ok. But I'm not happy with the bores after attempting to hone them, the corrosion/pitting is still there so does have some depth to it.







I'm thinking a re-bore would be the only option for this?

 

[GP82]

The ringlands are missing. I think best idea would be a new block if you can, but you can check to see in this block if the cylinders have not turned oval. If it's fine you will need rebore + oversize pistons. If you get a new cylinder block then it's a rehone and one more piston assuming the other three are good.

 

[WallaceGlanza]

Aye the ringlands fell off just by looking at them!

I'm gonna take the other engine out the car this weekend and hopefully use the block and pistons from it but I'm expecting the rings and possibly ringlands again to be damaged on it! (low compression in 1 cylinder)

I'll save this block for a re-bore and larger pistons later, maybe!