Got er on the rollers today.
- Thread starter spuddy
- Start date
billybob
Untrusted Seller
spuddy
Ulster Area Rep.
glad there is a problem, when you solve her you should be lighting those tyres up in 2nd!
lol
Phil
I always thought it was a bit odd that 1.1bar on the TD04 would spin the wheels in 2nd but it took 1.3bar on my new build before 2nd gear lost traction.
When its running right I genuinly think I'm going to be afraid of it!
billybob
Untrusted Seller
MentaLEP91
Member +
well theres is something wrong with teh timing and the compression.
tbh with my t25 @ 0.8 it spins the hell out of the front wheels..
goldenvtr
Member +
heres my input
on my 4e td04 at 0.9bar i made 203bhp and 186 torque
on 5e low 10cc pistons and 1.2mm headgasket td04 at 0.95bar i made 231bhp and 240ibtft (5e car timming) and i managed a 13.4@117mph
no im runing vf28 at 1bar with a 2.0mm headgasketon a 4e cam mark and althoguh the turbo is bigger i only managed a 13.5@104mph - i did get pretty big traction loss but im thinking the 5e mark maybe better.
i feel like the 5e vf28 give me better traction than 5e (4emark timming) td04l
so maybe i was getting more torque before hence the wheel spin - but then again it could ust be the way the turbo's behave. from the experiance the vf28 is only spooling about 500rpm later than the td04l was - maybe cam timming has change this?
when i get time and a new wastegate as mine is fuked ATM - not opening and the diagrham seems fine:S anyway, i will test out the 4e vs 5e markings and go for a driveto see if i can feel a diffrence.
i think the benefit of the 5e is torque rather than bhp - i was pretty annoyed to say teh least about my 1/4mile time running the same boost as a smaller turbo but gettin a sloer trap speed with a near exact same overall time. 14mph diffrence is alot inthe space of 1/4mile but -0.1sec in time sugests the td04 pulled much much better higher up - maybe that was down to teh 5e marks giving extra torque? or could of been the vf28 just not in its efficienc range at 1bar.
its ashame i dont have apower graph to show my vf28 setup yet but i would be very intrested to see the same setup with both 4e and 5e timing marks with no other change.
i personaly think bigger torque would befefit more than higher bhp
on my 4e td04 at 0.9bar i made 203bhp and 186 torque
on 5e low 10cc pistons and 1.2mm headgasket td04 at 0.95bar i made 231bhp and 240ibtft (5e car timming) and i managed a 13.4@117mph
no im runing vf28 at 1bar with a 2.0mm headgasketon a 4e cam mark and althoguh the turbo is bigger i only managed a 13.5@104mph - i did get pretty big traction loss but im thinking the 5e mark maybe better.
i feel like the 5e vf28 give me better traction than 5e (4emark timming) td04l
so maybe i was getting more torque before hence the wheel spin - but then again it could ust be the way the turbo's behave. from the experiance the vf28 is only spooling about 500rpm later than the td04l was - maybe cam timming has change this?
when i get time and a new wastegate as mine is fuked ATM - not opening and the diagrham seems fine:S anyway, i will test out the 4e vs 5e markings and go for a driveto see if i can feel a diffrence.
i think the benefit of the 5e is torque rather than bhp - i was pretty annoyed to say teh least about my 1/4mile time running the same boost as a smaller turbo but gettin a sloer trap speed with a near exact same overall time. 14mph diffrence is alot inthe space of 1/4mile but -0.1sec in time sugests the td04 pulled much much better higher up - maybe that was down to teh 5e marks giving extra torque? or could of been the vf28 just not in its efficienc range at 1bar.
its ashame i dont have apower graph to show my vf28 setup yet but i would be very intrested to see the same setup with both 4e and 5e timing marks with no other change.
i personaly think bigger torque would befefit more than higher bhp
spuddy
Ulster Area Rep.
Been reading on the austarletclub website. Apaprently 1 tooth out on the cams equals a 20 degree outtage on the ignition timing due to ignition running off the exhaust cam.
From memory my ignition was 20 degrees over advanced from standard and the dizzy cap needed rotated right back.
Definatly looking like I've set something wrong when I replaced the head gasket.
If this is the case and I correct it and set the timing to 10 degrees advanced will my map still be ok in the EMU. It's being remapped on the 5th anyway, but I'll obviously want to test it tomorrow if I correct it.
From memory my ignition was 20 degrees over advanced from standard and the dizzy cap needed rotated right back.
Definatly looking like I've set something wrong when I replaced the head gasket.
If this is the case and I correct it and set the timing to 10 degrees advanced will my map still be ok in the EMU. It's being remapped on the 5th anyway, but I'll obviously want to test it tomorrow if I correct it.
Sorry mate, only just got your PM. I think youve definately set something wrong with the timing during reassembly but your also on the money here. Double check all your settings are correct in the head and then reset your base timing. Does the emanage have a 'timing lock' function? If your car was mapped with the timing set how it is now then yes, changing it will throw out your whole map so if its safe now, Id just wait and change it before it goes on the rollers. Unless you already had it set at 10 degress base timing before you mapped it in which case it should be fine, but Id check to be sure. Id sort that knock sensor out too. The toyota factory ecu has a LOT of safety built into it and will retard timing at the first sign of trouble, even if you have an emange. Heres a link to some guys struggling with exactly this
http://www.bajanchameleon.com/5efhe_test1.html
Get those cracks fixed too. They'd definately be robbing power. I think your main downfall is the CR though. Unless your running huge boost, its not neccessary to be that low. I think a lot of people get confused with the change to the 5e and link the extra response to more cc's when its probably due more to the higher CR that gives the noticable difference. I lost 1000rpm of response in the power curve going from 9:1 to 8.3:1. Everythings a compramise. If your chasing more then up the boost or drop the CR.
Last edited:
spuddy
Ulster Area Rep.
Thanks for your reply lad, I sent you a PM cause you have done some serious things with the 5E and your is on the 5E markings. Have you tried your motor on the 4E markings?
My compression is down as low as 7.6:1 I'm aiming for 1.8-2.0bar of boost and its looking like a considerable abount of Nitrous in the near future. The car is road legal but isn't a road car if u get my meaning.
The 5E markings seem to produce more torque but the 4E marks (going by what people say on here) produces less torque but more hp. Thing is I thought torque and HP went hand in hand, so I can only assume the 5E marks drop off the power band earlier in the rev range.
My compression is down as low as 7.6:1 I'm aiming for 1.8-2.0bar of boost and its looking like a considerable abount of Nitrous in the near future. The car is road legal but isn't a road car if u get my meaning.
The 5E markings seem to produce more torque but the 4E marks (going by what people say on here) produces less torque but more hp. Thing is I thought torque and HP went hand in hand, so I can only assume the 5E marks drop off the power band earlier in the rev range.
goldenvtr
Member +
thats why deisles dont rev very high. i just cant see the logic in the 5e using 4e mark, even though i went for that option this time...
do ALL 5e's use 5e markers or only the 5efhe - do those fhe cams make a diffrence for the 5e vs 4e mark - im using stock 4efte cams
spuddy
Ulster Area Rep.
I'm on non stock cams, 8mil lift and 265deg so can't comment on the stock cams but torque maybe better than hp on the strip, surly it would pull u through the gears faster.
HYBRID
Super Moderator <a href="http://www.toyotagtturbo.
with a cr of 7.6:1 ur gonna have to at least lob in 26psi of boost to get that engine going.. trust me on this lol my cr is 7.34:1 & on any boost level under 1.5bar i get power, however not that power that u say wow this car is revving like nuts.. after speaking to chris (mr hkspower) he told me that since i have such a lazy engine (ie such low cr) id need to compensate with alot more boost & timing to get the engine going as it takes alot more to fill the cylinders up..
about ur timing, use the 4e mark as most 5e engines have responded better without the cam overlapping, however from what uv said about ur timing id bet when u tightened her up she slipped a tooth backwords cauing her to go pretty retarded, causing all the lazyness ur saying.. i know the symptoms all to well as i had a similar problem with my car a few years ago when my tps was fucking about, one day it would be advanced like hell so we retarded it all the way (until we found the solution to the problem) & the car would barely do a burnout lol, its silly really, but makes a big difference.
best of luck!
kon
spuddy
Ulster Area Rep.
Cheers for the info lad, will be heading out to the car shortly to get stuck in, your right I think, after tensioning the belt I didn't check if it was still aligned correctly.
As for high boost, she's going to get a ton
spuddy
Ulster Area Rep.
Think she's fixed thanks to some inspiration from Hybrid.
Checked all the valve timing and everything was bang on, put it onto the 5E marks and started it up and it made no difference, timing gun was showing the timing was off on both the 4E and 5E marks.
so we got to thinking what Hybrid said and can u believe it the Throttle position sensor wasn't even plugged in! :homer:
Plugged it in and hey presto the timing went to the 10 mark and from cold start up the idle dropped from 2000rpm to 1500rpm.
On driving it my misfires between 2000 and 3000rpm vanished, my kangarooing went away on low rpm driving also. Took it for a short blast, cause the roads are wet I put the boost down to 0.8bar which normally gave me full traction in the wet. Came on boost and the wheels instantly lost grip so theres more power there.
Going to keep the car on the 5E marks and map it to 1.8bar and race it in Sept, will then map it on the 4E marks at 1.8bar and race it in October. Hopefully under race conditions we'll see once and for all if torque is better than horsepower.
Also possibly going back to the rollers this week after a quick checkup with Chris and see what reading I get.
Thanks to everyone that helped!
Checked all the valve timing and everything was bang on, put it onto the 5E marks and started it up and it made no difference, timing gun was showing the timing was off on both the 4E and 5E marks.
so we got to thinking what Hybrid said and can u believe it the Throttle position sensor wasn't even plugged in! :homer:
Plugged it in and hey presto the timing went to the 10 mark and from cold start up the idle dropped from 2000rpm to 1500rpm.
On driving it my misfires between 2000 and 3000rpm vanished, my kangarooing went away on low rpm driving also. Took it for a short blast, cause the roads are wet I put the boost down to 0.8bar which normally gave me full traction in the wet. Came on boost and the wheels instantly lost grip so theres more power there.
Going to keep the car on the 5E marks and map it to 1.8bar and race it in Sept, will then map it on the 4E marks at 1.8bar and race it in October. Hopefully under race conditions we'll see once and for all if torque is better than horsepower.
Also possibly going back to the rollers this week after a quick checkup with Chris and see what reading I get.
Thanks to everyone that helped!
spuddy
Ulster Area Rep.
great news
glad you got her sorted
Phil
Think I should stick to computers, this mechanical stuff just isn't my forte
A
Animal GT
Guest
that plug ting your talkin about the tps plug mine kept coming off aswel a good wile ago,an i just clued it on..lol but never affected my car?not that no off anyway
spuddy
Ulster Area Rep.
It was putting the timing a mile off on mine, even though the car is naturally lazy cause of the low compression, it deinatly felt more responsive with it on.
Just thinking, maybe cause ur on a full standalone it had a lesser effect?