intake charge cooling using A/C. possible?

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dark_knight

dark_knight

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i am certain someone on here had proli brought this up in the past but i wanted to pick your brains a little.
is it possible.. (put a jeremy clarkson pause here) :) ..to cool your intake charge using air-con..?

i know there will proli be several schools of thought here but the question remains, is it even remotely possible. we could attempt;
a) cooling the air going into the filter
b) cooling the intercooler using the cooler A/C air

are there any engine risks associated with this if it were to be possible..? would it mess the stoichiometric ratios..?
 
dark_knight

dark_knight

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forget the cfm for a minute.. the idea is to cool the intake charge as much as possible. a/c temps are usually in the range of 18 deg C? right..? and if i'm not wrong, the a/c pump does not sap that much horsepower does it..? anyone know how much it actually saps..?

all in all, the idea would be to just have the normal heat exchanger (a/c condenser) cool the charge air going to the filter or over the intercooler or replace the intercooler all together with the a/c condenser.. :D
 
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A

aidan

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i was thinking of this before aswell but im not sure if the standard a/c on a car would be able to cool the air that much because of the speed of the air passing the coil which would have to be custom made anyway
 
dark_knight

dark_knight

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ok, let's try think of it this way. if i was to take the stock tmic and build an enclosure for it, then make that the a/c condenser such that intake charge would have to pass over the total area of the charge cooler before entering the engine..
any engineering gurus listening to advise on this..? :D
 
dark_knight

dark_knight

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because nos is d.a.n.g.e.r.o.u.s and tolerance levels are way too slim with it.. :D hehehe.. i like to play a little safe.. at least with some things i do.. :)
 
dark_knight

dark_knight

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hmmm.. anyway to improve those weak areas..? i'm getting excited just imagining getting air that's at 18 deg C into the intake.. :D even after compression.. :)
 
N

Nickzorz

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Thermoelectric cooling FTW. That way you can keep your stock intercooler. Starlet has the ideal engine Bay for this sort of setup ;)
 
R

Rev

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I have dabbled in this a little due to high temp in oz.
I see five options on my car you can move the a/c aluminium pipe joiner to touch either -

1 The radiator water pipe to cool the water when boosting.
2 The gearbox oil cooler pipe which cools the engine.
3 The intercooler itself.
also
4 The intercooler intake pipe runs parallel to the a/c cooling pipes and connection can be easily made.
5 Use the larger 5efhe a/c pulley for extra cooling.

> My car uses the larger size pully ( 5 ) obseravtions are with 1 & 2 temp gauge drops significantly.

> Re 3 I have not connected directly yet but Aluminium will pick up the cooling quickly. I have also thought of adding liquid Co2 cooling cryogenic type cooling to intercooler ___ still deciding.

> Re 4 Have some shielding to do from the radiator fan hot blow off before trying this.

> I find on cooler air days ( say 20degC ) and the A/C on the boost is earlier and the additional low revs torque easily exceeds the loss of torque caused by the A/C . This is not always the case in hot weather. I am still testing this effect but am definitely getting cooling of the engine charge especially when not generating too much heat by strong boosting.

>A caution should be given that hap hazard cooling of the engine oil or water, pockets of differential expansion with cold and hot together may not be the safest thing for your engine, turbo etc. that being said nor is detonation.
 
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dark_knight

dark_knight

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@Nickzorz: thermoelectric cooling sounds like overkill as i figure it would be e.x.p.e.n.s.i.v.e as a word that begins with S and ends with T! :(

@Rev: tell me more about linking the intercooler and a/c cooling pipes. not sure i see how possible this is..

while on this topic, i was running without a thermostat for a while and it was hurting my mpg & general engine performance since the engine would cool down excessively on every short highway run. so i put back my thermo to maintain oil temps within the optimum range of about 85 deg C. so, instead of cooling the engine temps in general, i'm looking more at cooling the intake charge more than anything else. i'd read before that i could use heat-shield gaskets between the intake mani and the block to aid in shielding the mani from radiating heat from the block.
any other ideas..?
i like where this is going.. :D
 
TurboDave

TurboDave

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The 10-15% or more power loss from turning the AC compressor is never going to be made up by cooling the IC slightly if at all, cooling the intake pre turbo waste of time also so in conclusion its a waste of time, also think of the extra heat which would be created by the engine working harder to turn the AC pump.

An efficient FMIC with good flowing pipework possibly a water spray or CO2 bar if needed and the filter relocated to the grill job done.
 
TurboDave

TurboDave

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The 10-15% or more power loss from turning the AC compressor is never going to be made up by cooling the IC slightly if at all, cooling the intake pre turbo waste of time also so in conclusion its a waste of time, also think of the extra heat which would be created by the engine working harder to turn the AC pump.

An efficient FMIC with good flowing pipework possibly a water spray or CO2 bar if needed and the filter relocated to the grill job done.
 
dark_knight

dark_knight

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@TurboDave: you mentioned cooling the air pre-turbo as a waste of time. i have a slightly different thought on this; since temperature is a linear range. let's say there is a 7 degree drop in the pre-turbo intake temp, despite compression, that will mean the intercooler will work 7 degrees less (harder) to cool the charge. true?
isn't this the same reason we get better engine response on a cold morning (coz the ambient temps are lower) generally reducing the overall temps both pre- and post-turbo - including helping the intercooler cool the charge..? :)
 
T

turboloon

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why not just run it like a cahrge cooler set up,instead of using the water cooler just plumb the charge cooler to the a.c....,either rthat or move to scotland weather is always nice and cool...lol.
 
Texx

Texx

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TurboDave said:
The 10-15% or more power loss from turning the AC compressor is never going to be made up by cooling the IC slightly if at all, cooling the intake pre turbo waste of time also so in conclusion its a waste of time, also think of the extra heat which would be created by the engine working harder to turn the AC pump.

An efficient FMIC with good flowing pipework possibly a water spray or CO2 bar if needed and the filter relocated to the grill job done.
Click to expand...

Dave has summed it up, it's a waste of time even thinking the A/C system could cool anything apart from the ambient air temperature inside the car. Even if the stock A/C system was able to drop the intake air temperature enough to make any difference (which it wouldn't be due to it's size), the amount of power the A/C system would sap from the engine would negate any resulting drop in intake temperature.

If inlet temperatures are a problem, then installing a front mounted intercooler is the most efficient way of reducing them. Additional cooling could then be attained by fitting a H2O/N2O/CO2 spray bar to the FMIC.
 
dark_knight

dark_knight

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@turboloon: lol at "move to scotland" :D nah! i'll pass.. i think i'll just enhance my charge cooling as much as possible and leave the rest to timing my runs to coolers times of the day.. :)
 
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