intake charge cooling using A/C. possible?

[Rev]

fuck maths..

EDIT; oh and i tried the famous short routed pipe work off tubo to core and found my fmic pipework to be hotter at the throttle body..

That's a pretty significant edit you slipped in - any links to the infamous intercooler route? Mine goes long ways to keep away fron the engine heat layer but sounds like I should have been looking at your engine bay.

 

[Rev]

spray the core first if it concerns you.. hight temp spray paint out of a can is perfect as this paint allows heat to escape so in turn will let the air cool the water spray..

Thanks ! Didn't think of the high temp paint it's nice and fine.

 

[Paul_JJ]

Cooling wise yes but I've been told 14kg of weight is equivilant to 3hp so I wouldn't be carrying a huge tank of water for an extra 5hp but my concern is how long does an Aluminium intercooler last when you spray it especially living with salt air near the ocean.? That's why I was considering CO2. Any idea how the cooling compares between liquid co2 and water spray with ambient say 30degC ?

14 KG - 3hp - can't be.... I have no power difference with empty tank or full tank - and that's about 35 KG..... 100 kg - would be noticeable, but not 14 kg.

 

[Paul_JJ]

fuck maths..

when i had my top mount on the pipe was roasted at the throttle body after some boosting.. fitted my fmic and even after a very spirted drive my fmic pipework is cold at the throttle body.. its a known fact that direct water injection onto the outside of the core improves inlet temps.. go for a drive on a very hot day and stick your finger out the window at lets just say 60mph/100km.. lick your finger and stick it back out.. it will feel cold.. same principle

EDIT; oh and i tried the famous short routed pipe work off tubo to core and found my fmic pipework to be hotter at the throttle body..

Can you be a bit more specific about the short routed pipe work - cause I have a long one and everyone suggested to get a short (HDI) version on the hot side! Thanks.

 

[dark_knight]

long- vs. short pipe routing

i guess there are pros and cons to long and short pipe routes. with longer routing, you get slightly better charge cooling (may only be like .5 or 1 degree) before the air hits the core but at the same time, you are likely to suffer a slight pressure drop and vice versa. i guess it's a catch-22 case here.. :teach:

 

[Rev]

14 KG - 3hp - can't be.... I have no power difference with empty tank or full tank - and that's about 35 KG..... 100 kg - would be noticeable, but not 14 kg.

Paul , As a check I ran a comparison using this calculator and it says 18kg for 3 bhp ( fly )
http://www.letstorquebhp.com/calculator.asp
I matched quarter mile times for 165bhp and 168 bhp with extra 18kg weight.

I notice a passenger makes a big difference say 75kgs. You have to remember that is peak power you will not be seeing much of that power at lower revs.For comparison I think you will find 35 lts of petrol weighs 25.7kg

 

[dark_knight]

i think at times, the obsession with weight goes a tad overboard..
for instance, using the calculator Rev graciously provided, and feeding it with dummy figures
of a car weighting 860kg and putting out 135hp.
if you were to loose dead weight totaling to 10kg (all other factors held constant), you'd only save about 0.06 seconds on a nought to 60mph run..! so.. unless you are putting your car on a major weight-loss diet, at times this weight argument at times is a bit unnecessary since you will more or less loose that time you are trying to shave off from a bad gear change or your foot slipping off the clutch or gear knob.. or even the person taking your timing slipping by point 05 of a second..

 

[turboloon]

Not entirely true.
Water sprayed into the intake charge is so fine, that it gets atomised by the air that picks it up.
If any water was that bad for the engine, we would all still be on horse and cart because air carries molecules of vapour, vapour is water.

^^ thanks for that adam,and these type of kits have been on the go for ages...

 

[aidan]

Cooling wise yes but I've been told 14kg of weight is equivilant to 3hp so I wouldn't be carrying a huge tank of water for an extra 5hp but my concern is how long does an Aluminium intercooler last when you spray it especially living with salt air near the ocean.? That's why I was considering CO2. Any idea how the cooling compares between liquid co2 and water spray with ambient say 30degC ?


EDIT : 18kg equivilant to 3hp ( fly)

if u live by the sea the salt in the air will eat the aluminum well before the fresh water that u would be spraying on it would... co2 is a million times better of a refrigerant than water but i doubt it would be cheap tho and the water would be much simpler and cheaper to install

 

[AdamB]

^^ thanks for that adam,and these type of kits have been on the go for ages...

They have been on the go for aslong as I can remember mate.
I fitted one to one of my dads old cars (calibra turbo 400bhp) and someone told me that depending on where you put the jet in the airstream can give different effects. If you put it closer to the intercooler you will get a greater cooling effect in the airstream to allow for cooler air in the cylinder, meaning you can run more fuel. If you place it further towards the inlet manifold you will get a power increase.
From what I can gather from this thread now people are more worried about the weight of water they gonna have to carry.

 

[Rev]

if u live by the sea the salt in the air will eat the aluminum well before the fresh water that u would be spraying on it would... co2 is a million times better of a refrigerant than water but i doubt it would be cheap tho and the water would be much simpler and cheaper to install

Thanks for that , i have been told commercial co2 is easily available as it is used by clubs, drink machines etc. but i guess your right water would be easier.

 

[Rev]

i think at times, the obsession with weight goes a tad overboard..
for instance, using the calculator Rev graciously provided, and feeding it with dummy figures of a car weighting 860kg and putting out 135hp. if you were to loose dead weight totaling to 10kg (all other factors held constant), you'd only save about 0.06 seconds on a nought to 60mph run..! so.. unless you are putting your car on a major weight-loss diet, at times this weight argument at times is a bit unnecessary since you will more or less loose that time you are trying to shave off from a bad gear change or your foot slipping off the clutch or gear knob.. or even the person taking your timing slipping by point 05 of a second..

Yea you have to cut pretty deep to get results I took my woofer speaker box out the other week and am missing it but my car is 930 kg plus mods so I have got more to give. I don't have that other problem as I am auto , I have read the toyota box changes are as low as .35 sec . in practise for manual change I usually change around .6 sec .

 

[spuddy]

I'd love a cryo system on my car. Even can cool the fuel and fuel can get very hot!

http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced Engine Tuning/Cryocooling.html

 

[dark_knight]

i'd say to hell with it i'd keep all my convenience accessories without having to worry about the cars' obesity since point nought 6 of a second is not a live-or-die time to go by anyway. my car's pretty light as it is at ~865kg according to the last weigh-bridge reading i got and it's only stripped of the rear seat. it's a p-sport though so i'm sure that has something to do with it..

 

[spuddy]

Depends if your into racing or not, I've won some competitions by 0.01 of a second so relived I went to the toilet before a run haha.

 

[dark_knight]

@spuddy: i know in a racing environment it really does matter, no doubt. but.. you also forgot to mention that alongside going for a major dunk in the gents before a race, you should also wear light-weight underwear.. and no clothes nor shoes.. hehehe

 

[Rev]

Sounds you both have your setups right I find I'm at the point where the car is getting fun and responsive road car but if I have a passenger it loses the edge so I think I need to power up or lose some weight and thanks for the super cyro info spuddy_ _ _

 

[dark_knight]

@Rev: x2 on thanks to spuddy, that cryo info is awesome. sounds like it would cost me a few organ donations though..

 

[turboloon]

They have been on the go for aslong as I can remember mate.
I fitted one to one of my dads old cars (calibra turbo 400bhp) and someone told me that depending on where you put the jet in the airstream can give different effects. If you put it closer to the intercooler you will get a greater cooling effect in the airstream to allow for cooler air in the cylinder, meaning you can run more fuel. If you place it further towards the inlet manifold you will get a power increase.
From what I can gather from this thread now people are more worried about the weight of water they gonna have to carry.

yeah it has went a bit of topic now..lol.

 

[dark_knight]

yes, and may i now close this thread..
thanks all..