My Brother the Islamist

[addz]

Banning a source of media like you've mentioed youtube videos etc will only make one deprived of it, and can further lead to something far more serious. It's like telling someone they can't do so and so, and then out of curiosity they end up doing it.

The views of them British guys are quite stern, and they are vioient people, that's quite conspicuous hence why they are in such an extreme movement (not Islam) but something more radical that goes by the name islam. I am for one muslim, and the views they seem to share, doesn't even dare coincide with mine.

 

[GTnomez]

I watched both of these programmes and couldnt believe what was going on in the Westboro one! The crap they came out with was unbelievable, quite similar to what the extreme Muslims say/do.

Talking about hitting that drunk guy, now i dont see how that is different to anybody else hitting another guy, guarentee you would hit me if i was mouthing off at you, just so happens he was a Muslim. Doesnt change it at all. And when he came to the camera and his brother (Salahudin) was talking to the guy calmly even though he was giving him abuse shows that everyone is different, hell if that was me and a guy was saying 'Bullshit' or whatever, that would surely even piss me off.

As for Westboro, i would NEVER talk trash about another religion ragardless if i believe it was wrong or think that they worship idols and to see that excuse for a woman to say what she did made me quite disgusted even though there is so many similarities with the Bible bar a few. Teaching kids that 'God hates fags' isnt too far off what the people are teaching the kids in other extreme places.

At least i was taught to respect those of other religions.

 

[gv1.3]

Still havent seen this, I am going to try get some time tonight and give it a watch.

regarding the comments above about Westboro and their comments regarding gay people. I think it is wholly unacceptable regardless of your religious beliefs to name call or discriminate against people because of their sexual preference.

I think there is a clear distinction to made however between speaking out against something - the Westboro loud mouths - and wanting to inflict cruel punishments upon people. This is where Islam enters the picture. Many muslims want to impose sharia law on western societies. This would bring some of the types of disgusting extreme punishments we hear about and see every day in the middle east.

I think it is important to raise that distinction again between speaking against something and becoming violent.

A clear indicator of the above distinction is to compare how many organisations such as Westboro have videos online with them cutting off peoples heads or stoning people to death - you will not find many christian groups doing this regardless of how extreme their preachings are. Now go online and see how many videos you can find of extreme muslim groups committing these deplorable acts - get comfortable because you could watch that sick shit all day long.

My belief is that until the greater muslim community comes out and stands up against these extreme teachings and actions a lot of the world will believe that they support them or at the very least have no issue with what these extremists are doing in the name of the religion they support. I genuinely believe that the muslim communities silence on extremism speaks volumes about their beliefs.

 

[Starlet_Sam's_Mum]

My belief is that until the greater muslim community comes out and stands up against these extreme teachings and actions a lot of the world will believe that they support them or at the very least have no issue with what these extremists are doing in the name of the religion they support. I genuinely believe that the muslim communities silence on extremism speaks volumes about their beliefs.

This is generally how it seems to me too, the only time I have read/heard a Muslim object is when addz said this:

I am for one muslim, and the views they seem to share, doesn't even dare coincide with mine.

So thanks for saying that! haha it gives me a bit more confidence in the Muslim community.

Addz, what do you think of this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6309983.stm

couple of snippets:
36% of 16 to 24-year-olds believe if a Muslim converts to another religion they should be punished by death, compared with 19% of over-55s

37% of 16 to 24-year-olds prefer Sharia compared with 17% of over-55s

What do you think the reaction to the questions would be in your community? It's interesting how younger people seem stricter, which makes no sense to me, but maybe older people can think more freely, or have had longer to think.

PS I'm not trying to start a religous hate campaign..........or am I? jokes.

 

[gv1.3]

^^ some interesting stats in that BBC article but some that dont make sense.

One stat says "86% of muslims say religion is the most important thing in their lives"

a few lines below in the "suggestions made in report" section it says - "stop emphasising differences and engage with muslims as citizens, not through their religious identity". If the vast majority state that religion is the most important thing in their lives then I think it is right and proper that it is a major factor to consider when dealing with them.

Some of the percentages are truly shocking. 7% admire organisations like al-qaeda... that is a huge percentage. 36% believe if a muslim converts to another religion they should be killed.... says it all really.

Read and understand this word... it is possibly the biggest issue in the world today Dhimmitude

It is the passive tolerance of and appeasement toward islamic demands. In plain english it is allowing muslims do what they like and have what they like because to speak out against them will bring violence or the perception that you are somehow a racist. Dhimmitude has gotten us in to a situation where we allow extreme elements of islam operate in our western society without any regulation.

Thankfully we are beginning to see more and more countries speak out against the extreme elements of islam and adopt the stance that if you want to live in our western societies you will do it on our terms or dont come here. France has recently passed a law banning the garment of oppression that is the burqa. The town I live in has repeatedly denied planning applications for a major expansion of a local mosque and a prominent MP in the Netherlands has spoken out against what he believes to be a religion of violence.

Dhimmitude needs to be eliminated - none of us should be afraid to speak out about social, religious or racial issues that exist before our very eyes for fear of being branded a racist or similar. It IS NOT incorrect to say that islam is a religion of violence and intolerance. Read the islamic holy book, it is there for all to see and is the manual by which most "good" muslims live their lives.

Extreme elements rely on people being afraid to speak up - say NO to Dhimmitude!

 

[Paul_JJ]

^^ some interesting stats in that BBC article but some that dont make sense.

One stat says "86% of muslims say religion is the most important thing in their lives"

a few lines below in the "suggestions made in report" section it says - "stop emphasising differences and engage with muslims as citizens, not through their religious identity". If the vast majority state that religion is the most important thing in their lives then I think it is right and proper that it is a major factor to consider when dealing with them.

Some of the percentages are truly shocking. 7% admire organisations like al-qaeda... that is a huge percentage. 36% believe if a muslim converts to another religion they should be killed.... says it all really.

Read and understand this word... it is possibly the biggest issue in the world today Dhimmitude

It is the passive tolerance of and appeasement toward islamic demands. In plain english it is allowing muslims do what they like and have what they like because to speak out against them will bring violence or the perception that you are somehow a racist. Dhimmitude has gotten us in to a situation where we allow extreme elements of islam operate in our western society without any regulation.

Thankfully we are beginning to see more and more countries speak out against the extreme elements of islam and adopt the stance that if you want to live in our western societies you will do it on our terms or dont come here. France has recently passed a law banning the garment of oppression that is the burqa. The town I live in has repeatedly denied planning applications for a major expansion of a local mosque and a prominent MP in the Netherlands has spoken out against what he believes to be a religion of violence.

Dhimmitude needs to be eliminated - none of us should be afraid to speak out about social, religious or racial issues that exist before our very eyes for fear of being branded a racist or similar. It IS NOT incorrect to say that islam is a religion of violence and intolerance. Read the islamic holy book, it is there for all to see and is the manual by which most "good" muslims live their lives.

Extreme elements rely on people being afraid to speak up - say NO to Dhimmitude!

Agreed 100%

Also that is the reason why the media doesn't write about any criminal or other NOT good activities about people who is not White or have different to Christian religion. As an example in the recent years there are many articles about the EU immigrants, the EU criminals, the Polish and the other East Euroapean immigrants - but not even 1 article would say something bad about those who came from Africa, Asia, Mid East, etc... - that would be racism!

But overall - the BBC is British Brainwash Corporation - they tell us what they want us to know, doesn't necessarily means that it's the truth! Not everything, but sometimes - as an example the most recent event
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ed-for-covering-up-Grand-National-deaths.html

 

[Paul_JJ]

Thankfully we are beginning to see more and more countries speak out against the extreme elements of islam and adopt the stance that if you want to live in our western societies you will do it on our terms or dont come here. France has recently passed a law banning the garment of oppression that is the burqa. The town I live in has repeatedly denied planning applications for a major expansion of a local mosque and a prominent MP in the Netherlands has spoken out against what he believes to be a religion of violence.


Please correct me if I'm wrong but Koran doesn't say that woman must wear Burka at all........ I read this on the Russian News (Russia has around 20% Muslims of their own population).

 

[Starlet_Sam's_Mum]

Paul, I believe its cultural not religious, it's from a quite primitive time where men would obviously want to hide their property from prying eyes.

So women equates to property basically. Ya digg?

 

[GTnomez]

It does say in the Qur'aan that woman should cover themselves and it is explained in the Sunnah also. It is to prevent men with no self respect from oogling and the likes, you see it everywhere and even on here 'Ooh i'll hit that', so it makes sense to me. Honestly when i see a woman wearing a Burka, i immediatley have respect for her as i know it is hard wearing such a garment in a niave society and she has respect for herself. When i see woman parading around in nothing and even Muslim woman wearing skin tight clothes i just feel ashamed to think they have to dress like that.

I for one would much prefer my wife to wear a veil, headscarf etc then to demean herself by wearing garment that would reveal things that should not, which you see alot around here. This is shared by other religions and not just Islam as you will find alot of thing are shared. Also i will not forcethe veil, or headscarf on her, i wish her to wear it and she knows this but she will when she is comfortable as she has tried and didnt like being disrespected from imbeciles you get everywhere.

My missus in not my property, she is my life partner, she will be the mother of my children and is above me. This is what i have been taught when i was in mosque and this a stayed with me ever since, you can google all you want but you wont truly understand.

 

[Paul_JJ]

It does say in the Qur'aan that woman should cover themselves and it is explained in the Sunnah also. It is to prevent men with no self respect from oogling and the likes, you see it everywhere and even on here 'Ooh i'll hit that', so it makes sense to me. Honestly when i see a woman wearing a Burka, i immediatley have respect for her as i know it is hard wearing such a garment in a niave society and she has respect for herself. When i see woman parading around in nothing and even Muslim woman wearing skin tight clothes i just feel ashamed to think they have to dress like that.

I for one would much prefer my wife to wear a veil, headscarf etc then to demean herself by wearing garment that would reveal things that should not, which you see alot around here. This is shared by other religions and not just Islam as you will find alot of thing are shared. Also i will not forcethe veil, or headscarf on her, i wish her to wear it and she knows this but she will when she is comfortable as she has tried and didnt like being disrespected from imbeciles you get everywhere.

My missus in not my property, she is my life partner, she will be the mother of my children and is above me. This is what i have been taught when i was in mosque and this a stayed with me ever since, you can google all you want but you wont truly understand.

You must have a different Koran in England then, they wouldn't put that on the news in Russia if it wasn't true. Have you actually read the original Koran? I bet those translations have some extra info during the translation. Probably just like the car being clocked on the way from Japan.

 

[gv1.3]

Honestly when i see a woman wearing a Burka, i immediatley have respect for her as i know it is hard wearing such a garment in a niave society and she has respect for herself. When i see woman parading around in nothing and even Muslim woman wearing skin tight clothes i just feel ashamed to think they have to dress like that.

Unfortunately all this shows is that you are judgmental. Firstly I see nothing "niave" about western society, it is an open and tolerant place which accepts everyone and affords them respect.

Secondly you know she has respect for herself because of what she wears? So by that thinking my girlfriend, who does not wear a burqa, does not have respect for herself? What gives you the right to make that assumption. She has respect for herself and is respected by me. She does not live in fear or feel like she is a second class citizen as she would in islamic society. She is successful in her job has a great social life and is free to do anything she pleases - she has enough integrity and moral fiber to make her own decisions about what is right and wrong and does not seek to be instructed in such things by any man or oppressive religion.

And when you see women wearing skin tight clothes you feel ashamed that they "have to dress like that" - the fact of the matter is that they do not HAVE to dress like that, they CHOOSE to dress like that. The wonderful thing about civilised society is that they have the freedom to choose.

Muslim men talk about their respect for women etc but I have always believed that talk is cheap and I measure a person or religion by its actions not by its words. Judging women based upon if they completely cover themselves or not gives a very good idea of how much respect you have for women, that is a personal observation. Islam in general has a very low opinion of women indeed, you will probably call this propaganda, I will call it the savage reality of islamic law

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ooQ--Z_5s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfPSN_92v2w&feature=related

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/04/bangladeshi-girl-whipping-fatwa

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm

I could post videos and news stories all day to counter what you are saying but its pointless, you will just say women are treated as equals. Go online and find me a video from a western civilised country of a woman being buried alive and stoned to death or whipped to death... the closest you will come is a woman having acid thrown in her face in the UK... and guess who did that...

Say no the Dhimmitude.

 

[GTnomez]

LULz!

No, you are simply wrong. No different Qu'raan, and yes i have read both English and Arabic version. The translation are done so that it is a direct translation of the Arabic or else it would be pointless if the meanings were different.

And you believe everything on the news? Okay lad.......

EDIT: that should have quoted paul

 

[Aidan@EP-styling]

It does say in the Qur'aan that woman should cover themselves and it is explained in the Sunnah also. It is to prevent men with no self respect from oogling and the likes, you see it everywhere and even on here 'Ooh i'll hit that', so it makes sense to me.

That's ridiculous. Because there is men going around with no self respect means the women have to cover up and not be seen? Why the hell don't they cover up those men instead of the innocent women?

 

[Dave.]

That's ridiculous. Because there is men going around with no self respect means the women have to cover up and not be seen? Why the hell don't they cover up those men instead of the innocent women?

Thats the problem arguing with religious beliefs... You can't argue with reason, in the hope of getting a reasonable answer - the foundations of the belief is based on fiction, and fundamentally not rational :-/

Dave

 

[GTnomez]

That's ridiculous. Because there is men going around with no self respect means the women have to cover up and not be seen? Why the hell don't they cover up those men instead of the innocent women?

That doesnt make any sense, i see what you are getting at but it actually has no sense in it. Covering up men is going to do what? Nothing. The women arent forced to wear the Burkha but it is said for them to cover themselves appropriately.

My Mother wears a head scarf (mainly because She has performed pilgrimage) but neither my Mrs or my sisters where veils or burkha but they do cover themselves accordingly i.e no skirts, short dresses etc. I would like my mrs to wear a headscarf but as i said before im not going to force her to do so.

And yes the men should no better but they also know what awaits them in the hereafter. And im not just talking about just non Muslim men, im talking about them in general especially Muslim men.

 

[Paul_JJ]

LULz!

No, you are simply wrong. No different Qu'raan, and yes i have read both English and Arabic version. The translation are done so that it is a direct translation of the Arabic or else it would be pointless if the meanings were different.

And you believe everything on the news? Okay lad.......

EDIT: that should have quoted paul

Well Bible has different translations, so I don't see why the Koran would not have!

I believe that the ban in France on Burka is a good step ahead of letting other people know that we live in the European Union (free countries for both man and woman with the same rights) and not in Turkey, Iran, etc.... I do hope that the UK would do the same.

It's pretty much pointless arguing with you here, most of the religious people have been brainwashed to the point when they can't see a real world anymore!

 

[addz]

The bible can have all the revisions, editions etc it likes.

There is only one Qur'an, and that has been the same with no revisions.

 

[williamocarroll1982]

I think reasonable, well thought out debates about religion are very interesting. I love religion as a topic of discussion because it brings out passion from all sides. First of all I was raised as a catholic but no longer consider myself to be so. I still believe in the same God but my beliefs are a little different now. I will not tar every Muslim with the same brush as this is akin to saying all catholic priest are paedophiles which is clearly not the case but what I will say is that all of the Muslims that I have met personally, have a superiority complex. They actually believe that they are better than all non Muslims.

My best friend is an atheist and we are constantly talking about the possibility of the existence of God and what the implications of what his/her existence/non-existence would be. I have the utmost respect for him and his beliefs as he does mine which is why we have been friends for so long. He is working in McDonald's, while he is completing his Masters Degree, with a number of Pakistani Muslims and he has told me that any time the topic of religion comes up between them they have said his opinion about what they believe is irrelevant to them and that it doesn't matter how he lives his life that he will go straight to hell when he dies like all other non Muslims. If that's what they want to believe then its their prerogative to do so but why are his opinions any less valid that theirs?

That is the difference between western countries and Muslim countries, Muslims have been allowed to come over here and publicly practice their religions and voice their opinions about our religions and our society as a whole but the reverse is not true. When we go to their countries we have to abide by their laws and codes of ethics and morality and I believe that is the right way but they should also be expected to do the same in our countries and if they don't like it, they should move to a place that they feel fits the standards by which they wish to live their lives. Its quite simple really, if their countries, along with the laws and codes of conduct, are so great, what are they doing in our countries???

 

[Ben89]

The bible can have all the revisions, editions etc it likes.

There is only one Qur'an, and that has been the same with no revisions.

Which in my eyes is exactly the problem, between 610-632 or something like that. In my eyes how can something that old not change with the times?
Not defending the bible here or putting the Quran down I just can't see how there is any integrity in any religion to be honest.
This is an interesting debate for me though, I live in a town which has a very large Muslim population mainly of pakistani and bangledeshi back grounds, although there are alot of east/west Africans practicing Islam here too.
There's been alot of trouble here with "religious tension" although alot of it is people just causing trouble, but there is alot of other worrying things that have happened here, people being killed for religious purposes, terrorist cells being found here also pretty much every recent terrorist attack has had a link to this place in some way or another!
I have a friend who works in the local hospital, she tells me that domestic violence within the afore mentioned communities is higher than that of any other, also suicide is much greater within the younger girls of these communities, I'm not saying there's a definite link and also this is just one person who has told me this but I'm guessing there must be some link there.

 

[dan_ep82]

Unfortunately all this shows is that you are judgmental. Firstly I see nothing "niave" about western society, it is an open and tolerant place which accepts everyone and affords them respect.

Secondly you know she has respect for herself because of what she wears? So by that thinking my girlfriend, who does not wear a burqa, does not have respect for herself? What gives you the right to make that assumption. She has respect for herself and is respected by me. She does not live in fear or feel like she is a second class citizen as she would in islamic society. She is successful in her job has a great social life and is free to do anything she pleases - she has enough integrity and moral fiber to make her own decisions about what is right and wrong and does not seek to be instructed in such things by any man or oppressive religion.

And when you see women wearing skin tight clothes you feel ashamed that they "have to dress like that" - the fact of the matter is that they do not HAVE to dress like that, they CHOOSE to dress like that. The wonderful thing about civilised society is that they have the freedom to choose.

Muslim men talk about their respect for women etc but I have always believed that talk is cheap and I measure a person or religion by its actions not by its words. Judging women based upon if they completely cover themselves or not gives a very good idea of how much respect you have for women, that is a personal observation. Islam in general has a very low opinion of women indeed, you will probably call this propaganda, I will call it the savage reality of islamic law

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ooQ--Z_5s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfPSN_92v2w&feature=related

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/04/bangladeshi-girl-whipping-fatwa

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm

I could post videos and news stories all day to counter what you are saying but its pointless, you will just say women are treated as equals. Go online and find me a video from a western civilised country of a woman being buried alive and stoned to death or whipped to death... the closest you will come is a woman having acid thrown in her face in the UK... and guess who did that...

Say no the Dhimmitude.

i second this, so because my girlfriend does not dress accoridingly by wearing skirts etc she has no respect for herself? seriously get a grip on reality and listen to what your saying its rubbish