Protect the title of "Engineer"

AdamB

Member +
I recieved this email earlier from my university. Would appreciate it if you could spare 30 seconds to sign.

Dear Sir,

I am an engineering masters degree student at Swansea University. During my time at Swansea my fellow engineering students and I have decided that something needs to be done about what society thinks an engineer is and does.



A careers’ talk was given last week to the secondary school children by a postgraduate student engineer, he asked a room of children what they thought an ‘engineer’ was. Their unanimous response was one of agreement that an engineer is someone who “fixes things”.



Another issue that arose was a simple job advertisement in the local paper, it read “Hair Engineer required”. The term ‘engineer’ is being misused and quite frankly abused. The mind boggles when one sees society treat a hair-dresser and the likes of Ismbard Kingdom Brunel with the same amount of respect.



We came to realise that something needs to change. This is a point of contention that has regularly appeared in various engineering publications. However, no serious attempt has been made to change the perception that society has, granted, it is not a simple quick-fix situation. It was soon decided that a petition would be made to legally protect the title of ‘Engineer’ in Britain as it is in many other countries worldwide, USA, Canada, Germany and France to name a few.



An e-petition has been created at http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/. There is a small team currently working on this campaign, the petition was finally accepted today (30 January 2013) and will remain online until 12 months from today. The aim is to gain a sufficient number of signatures to prompt the government and more importantly the cabinet to consider a change in law to legally protect the title. This will prevent the non-professionals from using the term engineer and over time this will change the opinions that society will have for us engineers.



The aim of this is to hopefully change the opinions of those young children, to encourage them to pursue a career in engineering. The subject is well known for being a difficult one to study; the students need more of an incentive to study such a subject.



Protecting this title will also (eventually) increase the salaries of engineers nationwide and bring them up to a level on par with other countries. In the United States of America an engineer is treated far differently than they are here in Britain. Stateside, when the term engineer is used it is instantly associated with respect and admiration. So what has gone wrong in Britain?



Britain used to be the great power in terms of engineering, the likes of Brunel, Sir Frank Whittle, Sir Barnes Wallis and Sir Henry Royce, these no longer exist. We do however have many engineers that can be mentioned in the same sentence as those previously mentioned, such as Sir James Dyson and Adrian Newey, however they rarely are.



The likes of Dyson and Newey are great role models for the next generation, let us support this; let us make Britain Great again.



After reading this, I’m sure you might be thinking “What does this have to do with me?”, well we need to spread the word for this petition. We need you to email this to every engineering and science student you have studying under your faculty. There are more than 300 universities in Britain; most teach a form of engineering or science. A target of 100,000 signatures is required before it is discussed among our politicians at Westminster. If each university has 1000 students studying these subjects then a sufficient number of signatures will be achieved.



The aim is to gain support from the large organisations and companies nationwide, before this can be done, a vast number of signatures are required in order to prove that the cause is worthwhile.



The direct link to the e-petition is as follows:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44889



We would greatly appreciate your support on the matter, please send this out to all students and staff alike.



Thank you.



Kind Regards



Bradley Cox and the team
 

WallaceGlanza

Member +
Completely agree with this, always annoys me when I see people calling themselves engineers when the job they do is completely menial.

Thanks for bringing this up, I'll be sending it around a few people for sure.

Wallace BEng (Hons) ;)
 

AdamB

Member +
Thanks Wallace :)

It annoys me when people tarnish Engineers with the same brush as other tradesmen or professionals when its simply not the case.

Adam BSc (Hons) ;)
 

richglanzav

Member +
sorry dont agree entirely. imo this has got a lot to do with people just wanting wage rises not so much being bothered about the status of the word 'engineer'.

can i ask you guys if you wouldnt mind telling me your job title and duties?
 

AdamB

Member +
Nothing to do with wages at all. Engineer's in good jobs get paid a good wage anyway. Graduates of an engineering discipline are on around £22k a year, with many companies such as Jaguar Land Rover, Rolls Royce graduates on the £28-£29k mark. Thats a damn good wage for a graduate.
 
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richglanzav

Member +
i can see where your coming from i just personally don't see the point if its not a wage orientated argument.

just want to know what you mean by a menial job (im not getting arsey or anything lol)

ile use myself as an example. im a lab technician at specsavers. this job has also been called optical engineer. therefore i would come into the categorie of jobs that you class as menial as i havent done a degree nor am i on anything near 22k lol only just over half of that infact. i just think that most ppl with a degree will agree and people without one wont lol
 

AdamB

Member +
I think that people get confused in what an engineer actually is, which is where the confusion lays. Like you say yourself, your role/job title is a lab technician, which to me sounds nothing like an engineer who designs, manufacturers, uses initiative to invent something, ground breaking technology etc. (No offence).
 

Rev

Member +
An Engineer is somone who knows more and more about less and less until they know practically everything about nothing.

Some people specialise in less. The proper idea of a professional needs to be understood before Enginner can be understood.

Imo protecting the name of Engineer is a trap.
The Government will want people licensed so they have someone responsible so are happy to protect the name.
When the dust settles there will always be less people in a given profession who have the name Engineer so your discipline Insurance will go up accordingly.

Also of course you will not be able to use the name Engineer unless you are fully insured.

After costs go up too much people drop out then the Insurers get crafty and offer cheaper Insurance which you pay for but does not really cover you for the job you are doing. So Professionally you are in a very hard place.

( for example My structural engineer said he can not inspect roof structures anymore due to his insurance excluding roofs.)

You are paying for nothing you are not protected ,the public are not protected and the Government has succeeded in achieving the opposite of what they wanted.

You are left with a lot of qualified Engineers who work part time or semi retired are prohibited from calling them selves Engineers any more because they can't afford the new costs.

Perhaps as an alternative to this when using an Engineer Title people should have to fully state their Engineering qualifications to be clearer
even this will not cover all Engineers.
 
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Jay

Admin
I fix shit all the time and I never get called an engineer.
























































Although if I did it would make me a shit engineer I suppose.. :haha:
 

dac69er

Super Moderator
where i work, every job is a technician. warehouse cleaning technician, homebrew canning technician etc. pisses me off as i am the senior technician in the engineering department but as every other menial job seems to be classed as a technician it feels a bit downgraded :(
 

weeJohn

Lifer
Engineer (noun)

1) A person trained and skilled in the design, construction, and use of engines or machines, or in any of various branches of engineering: a mechanical engineer; a civil engineer.

2) A person who operates or is in charge of an engine.

3) Also called locomotive engineer. Railroads. a person who operates or is in charge of a locomotive.

4) A member of an army, navy, or air force specially trained in engineering work.

5) A skillful manager: a political engineer.

I heard this best when working for a company who were bought out by an American company. A Director from the company asked our Engineer to brush up a small mess at the side of a walkway where we were working. "I am an Engineer" was his response, "Where I come from, Engineers drive trains son, get the brush" was the response.

I do not have a Degree in anything, fair play to you all above for getting the letters after your name. BUT, is it fair to not call a member of the Royal Engineers an Engineer as he has not got a degree, or shall we find someone else to defuse some mines?
 

WallaceGlanza

Member +
I agree that just having a degree and some letters after your name doesn't really make you what I would class as an engineer. When I left uni with my degree I still felt I knew bugger all on how to practically apply any "engineering" skills - that comes from physical experience in that area.

I work for a marine and offshore engineering company, I'm a project engineer and depending on the actual project I'm working on will either oversee or contribute in the design and manufacture of whatever it is that needs done, at my work we have in house design, draughting, fabrication, machining and mechanical fitting after having worked there for 4 years I would certainly class myself as a qualified engineer.

Protecting the title of engineer to me has nothing to do with wages, I feel I have worked hard both at uni and after and deserve the title of engineer but seeing people that do menial tasks, ie repetitive tasks which doesn't take problem solving skills or much thought at all (I don't want to give examples for fear of offending, a lot of jobs I would describe as this still take skill which I wouldn't have but not engineering skill) and then calling themselves an engineer does rile me.
 

Rory

Lifer
Protecting the term engineer, 1st off would be universitys to stop handing out diploma's like damn sweets!!

Seriously 9 times out of 10 they have alot of brains but no common sense whats so ever. I have spoken to loads of folk on this matter and most say the same.
 

dac69er

Super Moderator
Protecting the term engineer, 1st off would be universitys to stop handing out diploma's like damn sweets!!

Seriously 9 times out of 10 they have alot of brains but no common sense whats so ever. I have spoken to loads of folk on this matter and most say the same.



agreed. alot of the 'graduates' we get at work have trouble tying their own shoelaces!
 
Protecting the term engineer, 1st off would be universitys to stop handing out diploma's like damn sweets!!

Seriously 9 times out of 10 they have alot of brains but no common sense whats so ever. I have spoken to loads of folk on this matter and most say the same.


I agree there dude I've worked with some serious clowns who have masters degrees but not an ounce common sense. They have good memories for passing exams but when it comes to real world they haven't a clue. Colleges don't put people in real world situations like work placement enough imo.
 

AdamB

Member +
I agree there dude I've worked with some serious clowns who have masters degrees but not an ounce common sense. They have good memories for passing exams but when it comes to real world they haven't a clue. Colleges don't put people in real world situations like work placement enough imo.

I agree, I believe the government are now trying to get appreticeships equal to degrees. Makes sense really.
 
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