## Something for all to read ..... ##

[dac69er]

sorry i disagree the Quran hasd never been changed/altered....


faisal

thats fair enough. it was a generalisation based on christianity. but like some of you have said, you dont follow the words of the quran word for word so were would you draw the line at not being muslim anymore?

this debate could go on all night and not get anywhere. we all have out own opinions and religions and thats the way it is.

like i said in my 1st post peoples beliefs dont bother me as long as they arent forced upon me or used for personal gain

 

[FeNder]

in your country are christians allowed to build places of worship in your capital city? this is a question not a dig at you or your country or religion.

if i christian was to get sacked from a job in your country could they use their religion as an excuse to claim compensation and to give the company they worked for a bad name if they so wished?

i 100% agree with you that all muslims i have come across (hasnt been many tbh because of the area i live) seem to be hard working decent people.


the small % that moan in the uk are a small % but i just stated that its something that pisses me off when they think it is there right to do anything they want irrespective of other people and their religious beliefs. and beling law abiding and paying taxes is nothing to do with that.


the part i wrote about christians not being treated the same is true, but its not a complaint about muslims or anyone in particular. its about this country more than anything. i believe we are very tolerant here and some still complain. i cannot believe that your country would be half as tolerant as the uk as its known around the world the uk is a soft touch.

for sure , theres a church/cathedral the size of a stadium walking distance from me , in the capital , Cairo , there are like 5-6 big ones of that size , and loads of smaller churches , no one ever complains about being fired cause of religion we dont have anything as such down here , infact christians are alot richer than muslims , we're all neutral here , dont have hard feelings towards each other

 

[Phil]

sory m8 again i disagree there

becasue each prophet had a different 'agend' or 'message' i dont believe the Quran to be a part of the bible in any way shape or form...
the two are different... completely...


faisal

well it is written as an addition/alteration to the bible - Fact (your belief on the matter aside sorry dude)

the fact that they are completely different, is why if you believe tha Bible you couldnt believe the quran, for its totally different, infact totally opposed in its teachings.

in my opinino most "lost in translation" errors are when some1 teaches from the bible, without a proper grasp of it. the word is the same in the bible, but its presentation or interpretation is flawed in many cases.

Phil

 

[faisalgtturbo]

in your country are christians allowed to build places of worship in your capital city? this is a question not a dig at you or your country or religion.

if i christian was to get sacked from a job in your country could they use their religion as an excuse to claim compensation and to give the company they worked for a bad name if they so wished?

i 100% agree with you that all muslims i have come across (hasnt been many tbh because of the area i live) seem to be hard working decent people.


the small % that moan in the uk are a small % but i just stated that its something that pisses me off when they think it is there right to do anything they want irrespective of other people and their religious beliefs. and beling law abiding and paying taxes is nothing to do with that.


the part i wrote about christians not being treated the same is true, but its not a complaint about muslims or anyone in particular. its about this country more than anything. i believe we are very tolerant here and some still complain. i cannot believe that your country would be half as tolerant as the uk as its known around the world the uk is a soft touch.

to some extent i agree the uk is flexible about different people... religons
etc...


but i feel u may have had a bad experience of some kind m8 becasue there are some like u say abuse there religion (remeber they will be punished) to revoke/prevoke reactions from people ... whether in a job or in life...


i a jnc qaulified youth worker i can not get a manging job in this field due to the company i belong to (muslim) i dont dont drink socialise with people in the pub so i cant futher my career.....


not just me i know a mixed race irish/scotish dude same with him he keeps moving up and down the country to get a manging job....


if u closely white people are in positions of power compared to any other types of people....


faisal

 

[faisalgtturbo]

well it is written as an addition/alteration to the bible - Fact (your belief on the matter aside sorry dude)

the fact that they are completely different, is why if you believe tha Bible you couldnt believe the quran, for its totally different, infact totally opposed in its teachings.

in my opinino most "lost in translation" errors are when some1 teaches from the bible, without a proper grasp of it. the word is the same in the bible, but its presentation or interpretation is flawed in many cases.

Phil

i have copy of a bible with the new testament lol

i cant keep up with updates of it though... there are many versions of it...


faisal

 

[dac69er]

interesting fact is that the english men who translated the original hebrew and greek into English under King James, cleaned the Ink of there feather, and re inked everytime they wrote the word God.

hardily happy go lucky translations.

Phil

that means nothing. something is always lost in translation however well it has been translated. unless you can read the original text in its original language and understand it 100% then the meaning is slightly blurred so to speak. the fundementals are there in the majority of it may be pretty much spot on in the way it presents itself but there are still little bits that may have been misunderstood etc. there is always human error to consider.....

 

[FeNder]

Your bible says its an addition/alteration , our Quran says its a separate entity , however relating to the bible , Fact . fair enough

 

[FeNder]

that means nothing. something is always lost in translation however well it has been translated. unless you can read the original text in its original language and understand it 100% then the meaning is slightly blurred so to speak. the fundementals are there in the majority of it may be pretty much spot on in the way it presents itself but there are still little bits that may have been misunderstood etc. there is always human error to consider.....

Agreed ,reading in the original language is a Must !!

 

[faisalgtturbo]

for the tenth time

1) the quran has not been tampered with...
2) the language used in and by the people of the time is still around today exactly the same arbic...
3) no allterations have ever been made...


if u still dont understand i suggest we go to turkey and then saudiarabia...

lol


faisal

 

[dac69er]

to some extent i agree the uk is flexible about different people... religons
etc...


but i feel u may have had a bad experience of some kind m8 becasue there are some like u say abuse there religion (remeber they will be punished) to revoke/prevoke reactions from people ... whether in a job or in life...


i a jnc qaulified youth worker i can not get a manging job in this field due to the company i belong to (muslim) i dont dont drink socialise with people in the pub so i cant futher my career.....


not just me i know a mixed race irish/scotish dude same with him he keeps moving up and down the country to get a manging job....


if u closely white people are in positions of power compared to any other types of people....


faisal

never any bad experiences mate. where i live muslims are in a very minute minority.

there is a muslim bloke at work. he is not heavily muslim and you wouldnt really know he is tbh. i get on really well with him and he is a bloody good bloke and everyone speaks highly of him.

i do know what you mean about white people being in higher positions of power in most circumstances but thats just the way it is.

its not just different races that take the piss, women do the same kind of thing. use the fact they are women to get their own way etc and people are too afraid to do anything about it as legally thy can get buggered.


and i dont drink or socialise with many of the people at work. im with the cunts all day i dont want to spend my spare time with them too

 

[gv1.3]

thats another issue I have with these books... they have not been updated - laws have to change as times change - time moves on. Would a manual on how to live from the 20's seem dated now? yes it would... we would laugh at how women were treated etc... religious books that written many many years ago are no different... they are a manual on morals, faith etc which fair enough some things might still be relevant but a lot of it is outdated.

 

[faisalgtturbo]

never any bad experiences mate. where i live muslims are in a very minute minority.

there is a muslim bloke at work. he is not heavily muslim and you wouldnt really know he is tbh. i get on really well with him and he is a bloody good bloke and everyone speaks highly of him.

i do know what you mean about white people being in higher positions of power in most circumstances but thats just the way it is.:beer:

its not just different races that take the piss, women do the same kind of thing. use the fact they are women to get their own way etc and people are too afraid to do anything about it as legally thy can get buggered.


and i dont drink or socialise with many of the people at work. im with the cunts all day i dont want to spend my spare time with them too

so why is it that way m8 that is the million pound question?

 

[dac69er]

for the tenth time

1) the quran has not been tampered with...
2) the language used in and by the people of the time is still around today exactly the same arbic...
3) no allterations have ever been made...


if u still dont understand i suggest we go to turkey and then saudiarabia...

lol


faisal

but i cant read or understand arabic so would have to read a translation.

for example; if i was a uk born muslim with a very vague understanding of arabic it would be very unlikely that i could read the original quran so it would need to be a translation of it. this is all im getting at.

 

[Franza1]

Yes but the fact still is that is it the Infallible word of god written by a fallible man, According to most if not all religions the only entity in existence that is infallible is god Himself/Herself. So taking any written man word as 100% truth does in fact make the person that wrote it infallible, Which they can not be according to religion.

 

[turbospool@1krpm]

To the people that keep mentioning that they don't like people coming to THEIR country and demanding / protesting for places of worship for them to be built etc I would just like to say, yes I agree with you, and yes I would be also annoyed at this if the situation was the other way as you say .. . . . . However :

Is it not to be considered that the place in question is the UK and in the UK ( specifically England ), the population is made up of people from diverse origins / religions on quite an equal basis so who or which people are to claim it is their COUNTRY ?

Did you know:

1) Genetic studies have shown that the modern-day English gene pool contains more than 50% Germanic Y-chromosomes

2) One in five babies in the UK are born to immigrant mothers according to official statistics released in 2007

3) The ancestry of the English, considered as an ethnic group, is mixed; it can be traced to the mostly Celtic Romano-Britons,[106] to the eponymous Anglo-Saxons,[107] the Danish-Vikings[108] that formed the Danelaw during the time of Alfred the Great and the Normans

Considering this Its harsh to say, its a certain groups' country or anything similar and why should the immigrants appeal for places of interest to them or places of worship for them ( it its religion ) ? If immigrants can help improve the economy of the country and develop the country so much, why carnt they ask for certain things ?

So although I havent ever protested for anything lol or anything alike, I just thought Id mention this as I feel its harsh to compare muslims asking for mosques in the UK to a Christian asking for a church in say Saudi Arabia.

 

[faisalgtturbo]

thats another issue I have with these books... they have not been updated - laws have to change as times change - time moves on. Would a manual on how to live from the 20's seem dated now? yes it would... we would laugh at how women were treated etc... religious books that written many many years ago are no different... they are a manual on morals, faith etc which fair enough some things might still be relevant but a lot of it is outdated.

dylan u are spot on with this view but

the reason the Quran was and is never going to updated is to silence people who doubt it and question it.....
it is supposed to be the one true book thats why it will never change....

faisal

 

[dan_ep82]

i have nothing against muslims or any religion for that matter but i would like to ask, if christians moved over to islam would they get a chuch built for them? this a question i would like to know so please dont take the wrong way!

 

[gv1.3]

Is it not to be considered that the place in question is the UK and in the UK ( specifically England ), the population is made up of people from diverse origins / religions on quite an equal basis so who or which people are to claim it is their COUNTRY ?

sorry I do believe I was the first to raise that point and I am from Ireland not the UK. Muslims have been very vocal in Ireland about demanding things to the point of making a pretty tollerant person tell them "if you dont like it here go home"

The majority of muslims that are in Ireland have only just arrived over the past few years and are there for economic reasons - I have no issue with that as we have had a lot of Polish people arrive recently too... their attitude and willingness to integrate means they are accepted more openly.

 

[dac69er]

so why is it that way m8 that is the million pound question?

that is a question i cannot answer. in the offices where i work every single person is white.

i get the impression that people in minority religions in the uk dont tend to want to be in a managerial post? obviously some do. i dont really know as i have already said its pretty white dominated where i live.

without trying to sound too rascist here, alot of minority groups tend to mainly do certain types of jobs. whether this is out of choice or because these are the only jobs they can easily get i dont know?

i dont see many muslim builders about. god knows why as alot of the impressive structures that have been built in muslim countries are alot better than some of the crap that has been bodged together by the UK's so called builders (no offense uk builders)

 

[faisalgtturbo]

Yes but the fact still is that is it the Infallible word of god written by a fallible man, According to most if not all religions the only entity in existence that is infallible is god Himself/Herself. So taking any written man word as 100% truth does in fact make the person that wrote it infallible, Which they can not be according to religion.

to be clear on this matter


our holy book the Quran was written muhammad (pboh) 1 he was illiterate...
and 2 he cannot be classed as a man because he was a prophet/ messnger of God

he too had diciples like jesus did and thay also have books of sunnah and teaching that talk about how he the prophet lived.... his life on earth...

faisal