Still having a cam issue :(
- Thread starter danb87
- Start date
danb87
South East England Area Rep
wel obs must be wired wrong, as on the 1 cyl option it read the normal revs.....
spud, ye there is an option too select it, but going by my other avcr thread, ive been told that cyl shud be on 4. but got too check the wiring too make sure its right asap
After having a few members on here e-mail me about this thread (thanks) I thought it was time the crap stopped!
After having worked in the industry full time for over 7 years I knew that one day a thread like this would occur when the wrong side of a story is being stated here and I would have to step in and correct it as to this date I have worked my arse off to ensure every customers car is as best as it could be and never had a complaint.
For a living I don’t advertise mapping of Emanage units because the level of cars I work on daily would not last 1 minute with one fitted. But over the years I have mapped many of them for friends of friends like I have done this time with Dan.
Same goes for the Apexi AVCR. As I fit Syvecs, Pectel, Life racing and Motecs standalone ecus which have boost control which knocks the socks off any external EBC as they have proper closed loop control with adjustment factors for ACT, ECT, EGT, EOT, BARO. Because of this I got a manual of the internet for Dans car and wired it up as shown on a guide to ensure it was done correct. I then setup cylinder count on the AVCR to ensure the RPM of the AVCR matched the engine speed which it did perfectly.
Over the years again I had still set many of the avcr up so after that set the open loop boost duties right to hold the desired boost and then turned on the feedback which you can see was working correctly by Dans video which displayed the ** in the boost level. Which I see Dan has Played with and now messed up all the settings!
When it was mapped back 3 monthes ago there was an issue with the boost not holding all the way to the redline so I asked Dan to check all the boost pipes, check the turbo was good (ex wheel), check the diaphragm in the wastegate and a few other parts.
I get a phone call then a couple of weeks ago to say that the internal wastegate port of the turbo had not been properly sealed off (he runs external wastegete) which causes all sorts of grief with turbo control. He also stated he changed the exhaust manifold. As Dan was worried about the changes this would have on the engine I advised him to bring it up to the dyno so I could check it out. As I now had a new laptop I struggled to get the emanage software to talk with the unit so I did a few runs on the car and setup the boost control so it held boost perfectly to the redline . The fueling was perfect at 11.5:1 so I checked the ignition timing was spot on by marking the dizzy and moving advanced slightly to check that the timing was at as close to MBT as possible which it was as advancing made no difference to power and no knock was created.
Gave the thumbs up but then noticed that the torque was still dropping rapidly, now as the boost is holding perfectly I stated to Dan that the engines volume efficiency is dropping at the top end compared to Erics (another member of here with same setup which I mapped) Because of this I stated that there must be some difference with the cam setup or excessive back pressure in the exhaust manifold.
Now I see all the experts on here have stated to look at the bottom pulley mark and see if it matches up with the top marks! This might be the case with standard cams on a standard engine with stock head gasket but when aftermarket cams are fitted with different engine components they need to be setup to the cam manufactures settings with a dial gauge hence why they come with a spec sheet and why adjustable cam pulleys were designed!
Now onto the marks regarding ive not finished the job!
A Calibrator/Mappers job is to setup the calibration on the ecu to the engines state when brought to the dyno and if adjustable cam gears are available change these to maximize the engine volume efficiency.
If a car has a faulty part or problem with the engines build then yes the calibration can not be complete and the customer gets charged for the work done and dyno hire not a FLAT RATE to just map the car fully.. If it was a flat rate then it is up to the tuner to decide if the job is fully complete by not stating any problems. As I could see there was a difference in the torque graph of the 2 cars I suggest to dan what to check and do. As there is a problem with the engine build setup I can do no more so my hired job is done. What is hard to understand about that?
As all of the tuners here seem to road map they would class the job im sure complete as would not see the torque issue without a dyno
Now after reading the comments on here regarding myself and friends (Charlie@SRR) and having a customer question my advise constantly. I have stated that maybe its best he takes it elsewhere. His nearest tuner is Matt@AFR who I know well and suggested to contact him.
With regards to the comments about myself being a Tool and full of BS.
When you have tuned the cars around the world which have won hands down the HKS Drag Series, Time attack 2 years in a row and also set world records/class records as well as tune the highest HP road cars in the World maybe I will listen to you.
Don’t believe me check out my facebook page which is updated a lot more then my webpage
http://www.facebook.com/pages/2Bartuning/210633775647669
Or a rating score board like below
http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?129455-Supra-ECU-Register
After having worked in the industry full time for over 7 years I knew that one day a thread like this would occur when the wrong side of a story is being stated here and I would have to step in and correct it as to this date I have worked my arse off to ensure every customers car is as best as it could be and never had a complaint.
For a living I don’t advertise mapping of Emanage units because the level of cars I work on daily would not last 1 minute with one fitted. But over the years I have mapped many of them for friends of friends like I have done this time with Dan.
Same goes for the Apexi AVCR. As I fit Syvecs, Pectel, Life racing and Motecs standalone ecus which have boost control which knocks the socks off any external EBC as they have proper closed loop control with adjustment factors for ACT, ECT, EGT, EOT, BARO. Because of this I got a manual of the internet for Dans car and wired it up as shown on a guide to ensure it was done correct. I then setup cylinder count on the AVCR to ensure the RPM of the AVCR matched the engine speed which it did perfectly.
Over the years again I had still set many of the avcr up so after that set the open loop boost duties right to hold the desired boost and then turned on the feedback which you can see was working correctly by Dans video which displayed the ** in the boost level. Which I see Dan has Played with and now messed up all the settings!
When it was mapped back 3 monthes ago there was an issue with the boost not holding all the way to the redline so I asked Dan to check all the boost pipes, check the turbo was good (ex wheel), check the diaphragm in the wastegate and a few other parts.
I get a phone call then a couple of weeks ago to say that the internal wastegate port of the turbo had not been properly sealed off (he runs external wastegete) which causes all sorts of grief with turbo control. He also stated he changed the exhaust manifold. As Dan was worried about the changes this would have on the engine I advised him to bring it up to the dyno so I could check it out. As I now had a new laptop I struggled to get the emanage software to talk with the unit so I did a few runs on the car and setup the boost control so it held boost perfectly to the redline . The fueling was perfect at 11.5:1 so I checked the ignition timing was spot on by marking the dizzy and moving advanced slightly to check that the timing was at as close to MBT as possible which it was as advancing made no difference to power and no knock was created.
Gave the thumbs up but then noticed that the torque was still dropping rapidly, now as the boost is holding perfectly I stated to Dan that the engines volume efficiency is dropping at the top end compared to Erics (another member of here with same setup which I mapped) Because of this I stated that there must be some difference with the cam setup or excessive back pressure in the exhaust manifold.
Now I see all the experts on here have stated to look at the bottom pulley mark and see if it matches up with the top marks! This might be the case with standard cams on a standard engine with stock head gasket but when aftermarket cams are fitted with different engine components they need to be setup to the cam manufactures settings with a dial gauge hence why they come with a spec sheet and why adjustable cam pulleys were designed!
Now onto the marks regarding ive not finished the job!
A Calibrator/Mappers job is to setup the calibration on the ecu to the engines state when brought to the dyno and if adjustable cam gears are available change these to maximize the engine volume efficiency.
If a car has a faulty part or problem with the engines build then yes the calibration can not be complete and the customer gets charged for the work done and dyno hire not a FLAT RATE to just map the car fully.. If it was a flat rate then it is up to the tuner to decide if the job is fully complete by not stating any problems. As I could see there was a difference in the torque graph of the 2 cars I suggest to dan what to check and do. As there is a problem with the engine build setup I can do no more so my hired job is done. What is hard to understand about that?
As all of the tuners here seem to road map they would class the job im sure complete as would not see the torque issue without a dyno
Now after reading the comments on here regarding myself and friends (Charlie@SRR) and having a customer question my advise constantly. I have stated that maybe its best he takes it elsewhere. His nearest tuner is Matt@AFR who I know well and suggested to contact him.
With regards to the comments about myself being a Tool and full of BS.
When you have tuned the cars around the world which have won hands down the HKS Drag Series, Time attack 2 years in a row and also set world records/class records as well as tune the highest HP road cars in the World maybe I will listen to you.
Don’t believe me check out my facebook page which is updated a lot more then my webpage
http://www.facebook.com/pages/2Bartuning/210633775647669
Or a rating score board like below
http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?129455-Supra-ECU-Register
Last edited:
Texx
Super Moderator
The details appear to have been lost in translation here, so what exactly is the issue?
Does the turbo hold boost or does boost drop off after 5,000rpm? If so what is your peak boost pressure and by how much does it drop?
Does the turbo hold boost but the engine doesn't produce anymore power after 5,000rpm?
Does the turbo hold boost but the engine's torque output drops off after 5,000rpm?
I've merged both threads as they relate to the same problem.
Does the turbo hold boost or does boost drop off after 5,000rpm? If so what is your peak boost pressure and by how much does it drop?
Does the turbo hold boost but the engine doesn't produce anymore power after 5,000rpm?
Does the turbo hold boost but the engine's torque output drops off after 5,000rpm?
I've merged both threads as they relate to the same problem.
danb87
South East England Area Rep
the first issue was the ebc. something wasn right an for example the screamer was not working atall. until you lads told me the settings were wrong, so i changed them an bam the screamer worked....
2nd issue was the engine effiency which ive been told cams.... checked them several times but still not found a conclusive answer.
i was advised by ryan too purchase a adjustable cam pulley as then we can adjust that while on the dyno, but after speaking too other members an also matt from afr he said its pointless an it runs of the single cam oulley, an adjusting it would then in turn put the inlet one out.
ive only asked for peoples input as theres obviously an issue somewhere, an that seems too offend ryan. not enitrley sure why, but its just a thing that happens nothing too doubt his work or what he can do/has done.
but when people are telling me the avcr is wrong etc it does make me wonder wtf is going on. an if im being taken for a ride as im not that clued up when it comes too the tuning side of things.
thanks
dan
Texx
Super Moderator
What peak boost pressure are you trying to run and does it hold or drop off towards the engine rev limit?
It's not completely clear, but looking through your garage thread you were running a hybrid CT9 and now a TD04. Is this with the same engine and are you still experiencing a similar problem?
What sort of results did the previous owner see with that engine?
It's not completely clear, but looking through your garage thread you were running a hybrid CT9 and now a TD04. Is this with the same engine and are you still experiencing a similar problem?
What sort of results did the previous owner see with that engine?
danb87
South East England Area Rep
texx, this is a diffrent engine, this one is fully forged mate, as far as im aware he mate around 270 on the turbo/engine then fitted a uprated intake but didn have it dynoed again after that. i did run a ct9 hybrid but had no issues with that, never had that dynoed tho on the other standard engine.
im trying too run1.4-1.5br mate, from what ryans said its holding boost fine, but then the power or torque drops off. which hes told me engine effiency. cams too be exact. but ive checked them time an time again. he also told me i need too dial them in? but ive no idea what this is myself. but the problem i have is why this has only happened wih mine. seems others dont get this issue
an not being an expert i aint gota clue what too do texx.
Iain@CRD
Lifer
@Ryan-g
Ive yet to see a Starlet setup on the settings you have input on Dans AVCR. I used the EMU/AVCR combo a few years ago and that was travelling the UK to 3 different reputable tuners who none of which used the settings you did, which seems to indicate there is a wiring issue or an issue elsewhere within the car thats being avoided.
Which website did you get this wiring manual for the AVCR?
This statement below seems like a DIRECT copy of what Fusion Motorsport told me when they screwed mine up down Surrey.
Ive yet to see a Starlet setup on the settings you have input on Dans AVCR. I used the EMU/AVCR combo a few years ago and that was travelling the UK to 3 different reputable tuners who none of which used the settings you did, which seems to indicate there is a wiring issue or an issue elsewhere within the car thats being avoided.
Which website did you get this wiring manual for the AVCR?
This statement below seems like a DIRECT copy of what Fusion Motorsport told me when they screwed mine up down Surrey.
sx_turbo
Lifer
do you have standard cams?
if the cams are standard, are you sure you have the exhaust cam in the correct position?
there should be white (creamy coloured) pen/paint mark normally in the form of a tick, it only looks complete when both cams are in the correct position, there is also a big dot and a little dot that line up aswell,
what mods are you running? what has been dont to the engine?
sorry if these questions have been covered cant be arsed to read 5 pages of effectively not much
if the cams are standard, are you sure you have the exhaust cam in the correct position?
there should be white (creamy coloured) pen/paint mark normally in the form of a tick, it only looks complete when both cams are in the correct position, there is also a big dot and a little dot that line up aswell,
what mods are you running? what has been dont to the engine?
sorry if these questions have been covered cant be arsed to read 5 pages of effectively not much
danb87
South East England Area Rep
yep there standard cams mate, the single dot an double dot line up perfectly mate, im pretty sure the cams can be in wrong way? like intake/exhaust or could they?
i dont recall creamy paintwork/mk on them off the top off me head.
fully foged/td04/wepr kit/460cc injectors/emu/avcr/no filer( meshed)/j performance fmic.
thanks
danb87
South East England Area Rep
Iain@CRD
Lifer
Hes meaning that you have the intake/exhaust cam lined up correctly. I have a picture and ill dig it out, it shows the creamy markings.
danb87
South East England Area Rep
oh ok, would the dots line up if was out then? dots line up nicely
weeJohn
Lifer
Are there not standard cams in the car?
Last edited:
sx_turbo
Lifer
there are 2 sets of dots on the cam sprockets, thats the only reason i ask.
after just reading through your build thread i answered a lot of my own questions,
im sure the cams are probably ok seeing as the engine was already built and known to make good power before you bought it.
i assume you put a new belt on it when you got it?
other than that i cant see any mechanical issue as to why the car is holding back, but there is a possibility that maybe the head needs porting for more power, it is doubtful as the head is known and proven to be able to produce upto 300bhp but imo this is really pushing it flow wise and is normally done with bigg turbo's forcing the flow through the head and not being efficient
porting my cylinder head i found made a massive difference and gave me an instant 40bhp according to the dyno at the same boost as before.
after just reading through your build thread i answered a lot of my own questions,
im sure the cams are probably ok seeing as the engine was already built and known to make good power before you bought it.
i assume you put a new belt on it when you got it?
other than that i cant see any mechanical issue as to why the car is holding back, but there is a possibility that maybe the head needs porting for more power, it is doubtful as the head is known and proven to be able to produce upto 300bhp but imo this is really pushing it flow wise and is normally done with bigg turbo's forcing the flow through the head and not being efficient
porting my cylinder head i found made a massive difference and gave me an instant 40bhp according to the dyno at the same boost as before.
danb87
South East England Area Rep
yr mate i did put a new belt on when i got it
didn touch anything else internally. mark did say there was some slight headwork too exhaust side but might be worth gettin another head an having it done professionally, an also i dont kno who done it for him. but as you say should be good as standard for up too 300hp.
sx_turbo
Lifer
on a td04 i have seen 260bhp tops on stock head,
and looking at the pics in your build thread where you can see the exhaust mani gasket on the head, it doesnt look like any work has been done to the head, and even if there was, it would be pointless if the valve seat itself hasnt been enlarged, it will just slow down the exhaust gasses by cuasing unesacery turbulence
and looking at the pics in your build thread where you can see the exhaust mani gasket on the head, it doesnt look like any work has been done to the head, and even if there was, it would be pointless if the valve seat itself hasnt been enlarged, it will just slow down the exhaust gasses by cuasing unesacery turbulence