who runs aftermarket ecu's?
- Thread starter aaronw
- Start date
riko666
Member +
rally cars are an exemption - I doubt any people on the street are going to need anti-lag, apart for Bar Bragging rights...you don't even need Anti-lag for track driving, it's not like you're going to have tight handbrake turns or the like. And well, Top Fuel dragsters don't use Traction control - sure they're auto's, but regardless. If you can't handle the 1000bhp of a Supra? Simple, learn to control it or detune the thing....don't need a fancy little black box to do the bulk of the work 
hardcoreep
Member +
I didn't get my Blitz for dirt cheap. As I said. I survyed all my options INCLUDING standalones and made my choice with my pocket. I have no regrets purchasing the Access. My next purchase would have been an Emanage regardless. What happened was that my friend is a Greddy dealer and was upgrading his demo car to the Ultimate. He gave me the Emanage. The reason I went for the Emanage is a) The Stupid Air Flow Convertor doesn't suit my set up b) my friend used it and the stock ECU to make 288whp. That was proof enough for me.
My Blitz cost U$714 and the Emanage package I have is U$314 for a grand total of U$1028. Dyno time with a/f reading is U$75 an hour and from my experience I won't need the full hour to meet my goals.
And again I say the proof is in the final figures. If and when I upgrade I will be doing so to a PowerFC.
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hardcoreep
Member +
As for compensation here's how it goes.
The car is tuned to maintain a certain a/f target via injector duty cycle increase. There is obviously a relative increase in timing as well. The ECU doesn't care what injectors are in the car they it will run it at whatever duty cycle its set at.
I gave this example on my site. My friend uses his stock ECU, a SAFC, 330cc injectors, and a Evolution III fuel pump. Yet he was having fueling problems. Not enough and then too much. This is because the ECU still ran the bigger injectors at 60% max. If it detected a duty cycle higher or a very high a/f then the stock ECU would jump into limp mode and run them at 100%. Now 330cc at 60% is 198cc. My Access ran my stock injectors at 88% = 259cc of fuel. The ECU can handle a 20% increase without loss of control so you can run 330cc or 365cc. Using your stock ECU you'd need 380cc or 430cc injectors to run the same amount of fuel.
So here's what people do here. The computer runs rich. You add a larger turbo to use up the fuel. If you use too much fuel, running the car lean, you just add larger injectors. That's it. The timing will operate dynamically to ensure the optimum performance on the fuel available to you, just like your stock ECU.
That is basically what is in the JAM/Blitz/MINE's. Once certain thresholds are reached within the stock ECU it kicks over to the chip.
I've seen people go from a CT9 to a tdo5-25g with a simple swap of injectors and pump for fueling. Now I'm not going to say that the setup was optimum, but it did put some standalone people to shame.
The car is tuned to maintain a certain a/f target via injector duty cycle increase. There is obviously a relative increase in timing as well. The ECU doesn't care what injectors are in the car they it will run it at whatever duty cycle its set at.
I gave this example on my site. My friend uses his stock ECU, a SAFC, 330cc injectors, and a Evolution III fuel pump. Yet he was having fueling problems. Not enough and then too much. This is because the ECU still ran the bigger injectors at 60% max. If it detected a duty cycle higher or a very high a/f then the stock ECU would jump into limp mode and run them at 100%. Now 330cc at 60% is 198cc. My Access ran my stock injectors at 88% = 259cc of fuel. The ECU can handle a 20% increase without loss of control so you can run 330cc or 365cc. Using your stock ECU you'd need 380cc or 430cc injectors to run the same amount of fuel.
So here's what people do here. The computer runs rich. You add a larger turbo to use up the fuel. If you use too much fuel, running the car lean, you just add larger injectors. That's it. The timing will operate dynamically to ensure the optimum performance on the fuel available to you, just like your stock ECU.
That is basically what is in the JAM/Blitz/MINE's. Once certain thresholds are reached within the stock ECU it kicks over to the chip.
I've seen people go from a CT9 to a tdo5-25g with a simple swap of injectors and pump for fueling. Now I'm not going to say that the setup was optimum, but it did put some standalone people to shame.
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gorganl2000
Lifer
thanks for that cost info:rockon:
gorganl2000
Lifer
well i cant say i agree with u riko666......some times these features are necessary for the particular car/driver to get the maximum out of the car.....by any chance do u watch WRC......some of the best drivers in the world......and they all have these kinds of features built in to thier manufactured sponsors cars
thses kinds of features save valuable seconds when times are so close---allowing the driver to focus on what he/she is suppose to do........drive:rockon:
i can agree with u though,,,,,,,,,,that for a generally everyday street car......its just to show off.....lol
hardcoreep
Member +
Well, I don't know many EPs running in the WRC, LOL! Fuel and ignition make power, that's it. As long as you can manipulate those two major factors things are fine. I don't know how many tuning cells are in the stock ECU, but I'm sure they're more than most standalones.
So where the standalone is guessing in between cells based on your tuner, the stock ECU can fill it in.
So where the standalone is guessing in between cells based on your tuner, the stock ECU can fill it in.
riko666
Member +
My point exactly - Anti-lag is useful for Rallying, not anything else...I've never heard of Anti-lag on Track Race Cars either.
Traction Control, seriously, no drag racer with any sort of respect uses it...and again, that's a Drag Racer, not a street car and etc....
hardcoreep
Member +
Well, the guys here use launch control, but they're no faster than the car with the MINE's.
Toyota T23
Member +
gorganl2000
Lifer
yo hardcoreep......which ECU are u reffering to in this particular case.....just to clarify for the forum
......cause some people have expereinced severe overfuelling problems running the OEM ECU with just 330cc injectors addedwhereas as hybrid stated the preprogramemd JAM ecu (and i assume blitz, mines, etc) seems very capable of running up to about 365/380cc injectors without too many hassles
but then again some people get problems with the 330cc injectors and OEM ecu......while others dont......i dont really understand why that is
Toyota T23
Member +
Well the type of launch control i mean, is full trottle and then you engine is at(lets say) 3500 rpm, and full boost.
hardcoreep
Member +
yo hardcoreep......which ECU are u reffering to in this particular case.....just to clarify for the forum
whereas as hybrid stated the preprogramemd JAM ecu (and i assume blitz, mines, etc) seems very capable of running up to about 365/380cc injectors without too many hassles
but then again some people get problems with the 330cc injectors and OEM ecu......while others dont......i dont really understand why that is
The stock ECU can run the 330cc injectors with no problems. It depends on what else you have. If you add stupid stuff like a RRFPR, or a larger fuel pump you're going to cause a problem. If the car sees too rich a mixture it will either increase ignition trying to burn off the extra fuel. Reduce injector duty cycle as far back as possible.
Guye
Lifer
I ran 330cc injectors for one day on stock ecu and emptied a full tank. In one day! They came out very shortly after that. Is it possible that I didn't allow enough time for the ecu to adjust?
gorganl2000
Lifer
that's why i asked the question......newguye.....who buy the way had no other mods in place (no RRFPR, No uprated fuel pump, etc.)
hardcoreep
Member +
Probably.
streetracer_starlet
Member +
This thread is MASSIVE !!! Amazing read, even if it did take me nearly 2 hours
Alot of valid points for all aspects of ECU's. I have questions about F-CON but feel this thread is too indepth to bring it back down to my "layman" terms
Alot of valid points for all aspects of ECU's. I have questions about F-CON but feel this thread is too indepth to bring it back down to my "layman" terms