burning of the quran- thoughts?

[addz]

i think what is being said here is to lighten up abit. names are names and at the end of the day mean nothing and thats why most people can laugh about it.

if i was told there was a big bible burning down the road i would land down with my bible for the crack dressed as a pirate. i would sit back and have a good laugh at something so stupid and pointless. im sure the bible shop could order me in another fairly handy.

But someone's stupid joke is anothers nightmare.

All I've got to do is come on here to find a thread with someone 'abusing' a starlet - and the comments start flaring - why's he doing that, he should be fed to pigs etc.. There was a video not sure if it was on here or UKSC, but this was abusing a GT, and users wereshowing so much EMOTION for a car, a bit of metal, alloy, plasic, and wires. Where's real humanity. It seems to be like this, 'he done that, so let's label them all with the same tag' OR 'it don't affect me so why should I care.

One's rejoice can be anothers mourn which is inevitable.

EDIT:

na i dont lad.. im not in the slightest bit racist and treat everyone as equals... so much hate in the world tbh and this thread wont solve it cause everyone has their own opinion

I won't speak for all, but for many - it is hard to genuinely say 'I am not racist' - I won't say I am not because that would be fabrication.

 

[pig666eon]

exactly!!!!.......retrards who should have been locked up every race/community/country has them it doesnt mean we judge everyone else with the same label

im 6ft 2 myself, ive delt with it day in day out...if you read carefully i said some not me....oh and another thing this shit about a race card? where do i get one do you have one? as soon as a brother or anyone for that matter mentions something about colour people assume hes a member of the race card club

not sure what you ment in the last para buddy

Its against our religion to drink fullstop this is how ive been brought up....why you say...you cant have a good time without drink...helps you chill out etc etc

• You loose control of yourself body+mind

can be spkied at any time leading to rape M or F

• leads you towards sin (murder etc)
  doesnt do your body any good
  causes masses and masses of financial loss (gambling thur to the healthcare
  
  Iirc it says in the bible not to drink either

you said color in your last post man

look man the bible is a guide to live by and should not be taken word for word. the book is a reference to living a fuller life its up to you to interpret it.

i drink man and i have never raped or killed anyone. ive done hard drugs when i was younger and smoke the odd joint now and then and still havent killed or raped anyone?? this may be your beliefs but you will never know the other side of the coin if you dont try the darkside. moderation is the key to everything and it take good will and patience to get it right. i enjoy the odd drink and smoke and why shouldnt i? i think after a hard weeks work i have something to wind me down. stress is a big killer dont forget about that one.

i can have a perfect time without anything but this hole thing thats its bad is nonsense.

 

[pig666eon]

But someone's stupid joke is anothers nightmare.

All I've got to do is come on here to find a thread with someone 'abusing' a starlet - and the comments start flaring - why's he doing that, he should be fed to pigs etc.. There was a video not sure if it was on here or UKSC, but this was abusing a GT, and users wereshowing so much EMOTION for a car, a bit of metal, alloy, plasic, and wires. Where's real humanity. It seems to be like this, 'he done that, so let's label them all with the same tag' OR 'it don't affect me so why should I care.

One's rejoice can be anothers mourn which is inevitable.

EDIT:

i can understand the the religion fanatics who live by religion but what if we are all wrong? what whould happen if eg aliens came down and told a hole storie saying all religions were wrong how would you take to that? would you be offended at the notion?

this is just one example of having a very open mind on religious beliefs not only your own but others aswell. things dont have to be serious unless you make it that way. i think all religions are right and wrong in there own way but i can still laugh at my beliefs and call myself daft at believing such a notion

 

[turboloon]

you just gave example of retards and they should be locked up.

you are giving an example of you living in the uk about name calling? what exactly do you want man, im 6ft5 i have been called the big show, lanky the works and i dealth with it. dont pull out the race card because your not the same as everyone else. im sure if i went to live when i was younger to say eg. iraq do you not think i would be called whitey or snow face or milkey bar? of course man im different and living in a different place why wouldnt i be. but i have learned at least one lesson in life it is to get over what other people think and get on with life. life is short and needs to be enjoyed to its fullest. there should be no discrimination but there is and people deal with it.

you say up above about not drinking ect where does all the hatred come from? it seems like its a good moto to live by but how does it turn from what you have to the extremests going about their daily business?

^^^ well said

 

[Phil]

Believing the koran/Quran is a load of made up balls, would not make me want to burn it.

this pastor obviously is wanting to whip up support "politically" rather than religiously to make some sort of statement, that goes along the lines of " just incase you were wondering,(since the west is so tolerant of people freedom of speech and allows you to teach that we are all infidels that we deserve to die) we would like to remind you that alothough tolerant of your crap we do believe it is just that, a load of crap"

i can understand that in a world were these arab nations burn flags or throw shoes in our countries because our laws allow them, its would be refreshing to see western laws bent in a way that annoys the muslims.

the real problem with suggesting that its just retaliation for these scumbags who do the opposite in our faces, is that actually those helpless muslims/Islamic folk who do that in other countries do it because they have no other way to be heard, no other way to be seen.

we have the media which still takes a fundamentally western view on things, which it should as this is the west (if you want to live and have sharia law or want eastern/Arabic values, then stop sitting in our country telling us how you don’t care about money or tv or any of western culture and get yourself on the next plane to Pakistan or Afghanistan where there is no money or tv or western culture.

and we have an army, so its not like we are exactly helpless against islam, so doing this silly stunt though seen as a political statement its still unnecessary.

Phil

 

[J25GTi]

All I think on the subject is good on him. No one complains when iragis/afghans burn the english and american flags etc and try to shoot down the pm when he visited.

its just a publicity stunt

 

[SupaStu]

...one thought, its just a book, a material possession (does it make a difference if its a hardback or paperback, or collectors/hardened/prestige edition?) , who gives a fuck really. You can get shit loads of them from Amazon if you want lol Its not like the last copy of it on earth.

Its all just a media show. How many dummies, flags and flip flops have been brutalised and burned in terror!

Not saying I approve, my only concern is the feeding of the frenzy of response of the aggressors in the worlds violent hotspots.

 

[Dane_Bristol]

We have just spent nearly 10 years fighting in Afghanistan loosing soldiers to bring peace or try too and now this idiot feels the need to create a HUGE problem that i am sure will create a huge backlash and things will come back tens times worse. I dont see the point really. I know there is alot of hate but doing this will just create more of it and we will be back to square one and some might go and far as saying 10 steps back from square one !.

 

[churcherj]

anyone heard of nostradamus? prophet in the 1500's and has predicted many things that have happened to date, predictions of a world war 3 between 2011-2012 between the arab and christian worlds, maybe this could be the start of worst things too come (if you believe in that stuff)

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/nostradamus-predictions-that-came-true.html

 

[williamocarroll1982]

The 1st amendment of the Constitution of America states

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

This man of the church is entitled to burn any book he wants according to American law just the same as it allows "extremist" Muslims to peacefully assemble and give out about america, a country which allowed them to come to and better themselves both by education and employment, which has and does happen regularly. This amendment is fundamental to EVERYTHING that America stands for. How many times has a Christian fundamentalist (of which there are MANY) gone to a middle eastern country and said how shit their country is and that we should kill Muslims and our reward will be eternal salvation? We tolerate this kind of behavour because it is a fundamental human right to be able to voice our opinions without the fear of retribution, the same cannot be said for MANY middle eastern countries.

I have said for a number of years that it would be very easy to sort all this shit out without violence. Ban travel between the east and west. Don't let ANYONE in or out of these countries and into the west, let them travel between each other if they want but thats it and don't trade with them and the ordinary descent Muslim wouldn't be long getting sick of it if they couldn't buy any western products, have access to western facilities like medical research and medicine and western technology. Then you'd see how quickly the extremists would be given up. I know were reliant on their oil but there are ways around that too.

 

[scot-ish]

do you realise how much oil comes from the middle east? millions upon millions of barrels everyday. the west couldnt survive, no oil in the west means no industry to trade with the east. its a circle. Alot of people beleive alot of fighting, is mainly down to this reason

 

[williamocarroll1982]

I see what your saying but the middle east isn't the only place there is oil, Russia and America are the 2nd and 3rd biggest producers of oil in the world and with the advances in alternative sources of energy it would be entirely possible to have a trade embargo

 

[scot-ish]

no chance, america talk shite about there oil supply, they decided last year, they wernt guna import no more oil, they would just use there own. didnt last long.
its not all about oil, different grades are used for different things. the saudi's have the best oil.

My company run 25 tankers, from middle east to america each month, thats 50 million barrels, and thats only my company. 50 million, a month, every month.

America dont have enough oil to supply there own countries demand.

 

[williamocarroll1982]

Thats fair enough so lad, you know what your talking about

 

[pig666eon]

haha i love the way this tread has gone 3 seperate directions in a day partially my fault i will add. i wont be bothered either way if he does or not burn the book. he is exercising his rights and no one can deny him that. i would imagine by now the south has got there pre copys of it and has it ready to be burned. i do believe in karma and the extremests will get whats coming to them sooner rather than later and i feel they dont know what they are getting themselves into.

i wish everything was dandy and we all got along but we dont. i want this to finally end once and for all. if war is a result then i am up for going to war for a reason rather than oil.

i will be watching closely and see hows it plays out.

 

[gedis]

thei should burn child malesting catalic priests instead and gards that was covering it up, as for september 11 and usa, we play their dream team on that day in basketball world cup and hopfully it will be another bad september 11th for them

 

[gedis]

We have just spent nearly 10 years fighting in Afghanistan loosing soldiers to bring peace or try too and now this idiot feels the need to create a HUGE problem that i am sure will create a huge backlash and things will come back tens times worse. I dont see the point really. I know there is alot of hate but doing this will just create more of it and we will be back to square one and some might go and far as saying 10 steps back from square one !.

never knew you were a soldier

 

[gv1.3]

interesting thread with some interesting opinions, I will give my opinion on the original topic.

Firstly I dont think this guy in Florida should have ever gotten the publicity that was given to him. His "church" has 50 members which by USA standards, and pretty much any other standards, is tiny. He is an insignificant nobody that is trying to draw attention to his church and himself.

Burning any book is wrong in my opinion. Immediately comparisons will be drawn to the nazi's and at that stage you are an extremist and whatever you have to say will no longer be taken seriously so you have failed.

A far better idea would have been to read some of the extreme teachings of Islam which are going on every day in mosques throughout the world. If people actually knew what was being spoken in islamic places of worship they might think twice before being so welcoming of muslim practitioners.

I personally have respect for every person I meet up until the point they treat me with disrespect. I believe that if you remain silent and do not speak out against something then you are contributing toward the acceptance of it. I have been told by a muslim directly that he does not believe I am, as a non-muslim, an equal person in his eyes. He has been taught that non-muslims are not equals, I find that a major disrespectful aspect of the muslim religion. I find it very suspicious that when crimes are carried out in the name of islam the majority of the muslim community remain silent and do not speak out against such crimes, it makes me feel that they support some of the actions carried out by extremists in the name of islam.

The actual book that was to be burned is not of any consequence to me, it could have been a bible or a dictionary, I dont believe in destroying literature or censorship in general. I find the level or response from the muslim community absolutely astonishing... I only wish they would be so vocal when their fellow muslims are carrying out "honor killings" on the streets of our Western societies or flying planes in to buildings and killing thousands of innocent people... it would be nice to see them speak out so vocally condemning those acts carried out in the name of islam... makes me wonder why they dont?!?

Moving on to the points raised regarding religion in general. It is, in my opinion, laughable to say that religion contributes to moral values in society and teaches people a good way to live. Does anyone actually believe that if the ten commandments did not exist we would not know that it was wrong to kill someone? seriously? If you need a bearded man to stroll down from a mountain with a piece of stone and announce that you should not kill people then you are stupid. Also if the ten commandments were in any way a narrative for how a person should live perhaps they should have put in something about raping people... they seem to put in dont steal but if we go by the ten commandments it is perfectly acceptable to rape, great guide to moral values there.

Religion has always been a way to guide people in a certain direction and give them answers for the unexplained. In certain situations it has turned in to a massive business, the catholic church for example, which puts money and power before its followers.

Allow me to sum up religion in its most raw. The catholic church has missionaries who roll on in to town when there is a famine etc. They bring lots of food and show it to the locals. They then tell them that "god" sent the food and if they want it they have to become members of the catholic church. The starving people have no option and go ahead with this. If you think this is simplistic just take a look at where the catholic church is recruiting all of its new members, third world countries in Africa.

Now what is most important... more members. HIV is rampant in Africa and many organisations are championing the use of condoms. But the problem is if you use condoms you dont make babies... if there are no babies the churches membership figures do not rise. The pope rolls in to town and tells everyone it is a sin against god to use condoms, yes he actually did this recently. The church puts money before the welfare of its members.

I am in the process of having myself removed as a catholic, I have no time for them and do not want to be associated with an organisation that has protected child rapists and often facilitated and enabled them. I have been called a racist on here several times because of my views on islam, I dont look down upon any race but religion is not a race so keep your racist comments to yourself please.

Finally there are some muslims on here who have come across as pretty moderate in the past and I have enjoyed hearing their point of view. I think it would be great if more muslims were as liberal but lets face it the muslim religion in most parts of the world is about 5 or 6 hundred years behind christianity. It is often a blood thirsty religion and steeped in over the top punishment and antiquated laws.

I make a decision not to visit muslim countries because I do not agree with their teachings and would not feel comfortable there, I think it is a simple decision to make. I would dearly love for muslims to respect where I live and the laws of my land and if they do not like the way I live they do not have to come to my home country. The problem is that western countries have been too accommodating of islam. I am delighted to see France and some parts of the USA finally taking a stand.

 

[williamocarroll1982]

interesting thread with some interesting opinions, I will give my opinion on the original topic.

Firstly I dont think this guy in Florida should have ever gotten the publicity that was given to him. His "church" has 50 members which by USA standards, and pretty much any other standards, is tiny. He is an insignificant nobody that is trying to draw attention to his church and himself.

Burning any book is wrong in my opinion. Immediately comparisons will be drawn to the nazi's and at that stage you are an extremist and whatever you have to say will no longer be taken seriously so you have failed.

A far better idea would have been to read some of the extreme teachings of Islam which are going on every day in mosques throughout the world. If people actually knew what was being spoken in islamic places of worship they might think twice before being so welcoming of muslim practitioners.

I personally have respect for every person I meet up until the point they treat me with disrespect. I believe that if you remain silent and do not speak out against something then you are contributing toward the acceptance of it. I have been told by a muslim directly that he does not believe I am, as a non-muslim, an equal person in his eyes. He has been taught that non-muslims are not equals, I find that a major disrespectful aspect of the muslim religion. I find it very suspicious that when crimes are carried out in the name of islam the majority of the muslim community remain silent and do not speak out against such crimes, it makes me feel that they support some of the actions carried out by extremists in the name of islam.

The actual book that was to be burned is not of any consequence to me, it could have been a bible or a dictionary, I dont believe in destroying literature or censorship in general. I find the level or response from the muslim community absolutely astonishing... I only wish they would be so vocal when their fellow muslims are carrying out "honor killings" on the streets of our Western societies or flying planes in to buildings and killing thousands of innocent people... it would be nice to see them speak out so vocally condemning those acts carried out in the name of islam... makes me wonder why they dont?!?

Moving on to the points raised regarding religion in general. It is, in my opinion, laughable to say that religion contributes to moral values in society and teaches people a good way to live. Does anyone actually believe that if the ten commandments did not exist we would not know that it was wrong to kill someone? seriously? If you need a bearded man to stroll down from a mountain with a piece of stone and announce that you should not kill people then you are stupid. Also if the ten commandments were in any way a narrative for how a person should live perhaps they should have put in something about raping people... they seem to put in dont steal but if we go by the ten commandments it is perfectly acceptable to rape, great guide to moral values there.

Religion has always been a way to guide people in a certain direction and give them answers for the unexplained. In certain situations it has turned in to a massive business, the catholic church for example, which puts money and power before its followers.

Allow me to sum up religion in its most raw. The catholic church has missionaries who roll on in to town when there is a famine etc. They bring lots of food and show it to the locals. They then tell them that "god" sent the food and if they want it they have to become members of the catholic church. The starving people have no option and go ahead with this. If you think this is simplistic just take a look at where the catholic church is recruiting all of its new members, third world countries in Africa.

Now what is most important... more members. HIV is rampant in Africa and many organisations are championing the use of condoms. But the problem is if you use condoms you dont make babies... if there are no babies the churches membership figures do not rise. The pope rolls in to town and tells everyone it is a sin against god to use condoms, yes he actually did this recently. The church puts money before the welfare of its members.

I am in the process of having myself removed as a catholic, I have no time for them and do not want to be associated with an organisation that has protected child rapists and often facilitated and enabled them. I have been called a racist on here several times because of my views on islam, I dont look down upon any race but religion is not a race so keep your racist comments to yourself please.

Finally there are some muslims on here who have come across as pretty moderate in the past and I have enjoyed hearing their point of view. I think it would be great if more muslims were as liberal but lets face it the muslim religion in most parts of the world is about 5 or 6 hundred years behind christianity. It is often a blood thirsty religion and steeped in over the top punishment and antiquated laws.

I make a decision not to visit muslim countries because I do not agree with their teachings and would not feel comfortable there, I think it is a simple decision to make. I would dearly love for muslims to respect where I live and the laws of my land and if they do not like the way I live they do not have to come to my home country. The problem is that western countries have been too accommodating of islam. I am delighted to see France and some parts of the USA finally taking a stand.

Id say "x2" but i actually agree with you WAY more than that so i'll say X1000. What you have said so eloquently is EXACTLY what I was trying to say but I couldn't word it the way you have just done. Not only are we willing to allow these extremists to voice their opinions but we are afraid to voice our own for fear of being called racist or anti Islam. I totally respect your choice not to believe in God, my best friend is an atheist and has the exact same opinions on religion as you have yourself but totally respects the fact that I believe in God. I am not a religious man but I have a HUGE interest in religions and am very fascinated by them, their history, how they effect societies throughout history and how the have changed and evolved through the ages to suit the needs of the people of a particular time and place

 

[gv1.3]

Hey William. I know what you mean mate. You see there is something very satisfying to me about discussing such matters with level headed people who have an opinion. Their opinion does not need to be the same as mine, some people on here like Phil for example have a very different opinion on religion than I do but it is never a case of right or wrong just a case of information exchange and discussion.

I find it dangerous when you get in to a discussion with someone about a particular religion and they say "I hate" or "they are wrong" and when you probe further you often find that the person you are talking to has no real explanation for why they hate or find something wrong with another persons religious beliefs. It takes a little time to look in to different religions and find out some details about them. In the course of doing this I am sure some people see things they like and may end up participating in that religion, others will find things they do not like and will find reasons that they do not support that religion.

I have a bible app on my phone and often read verses from the bible if I have a spare moment. I dont believe anything that is in the bible but it is quite entertaining, particularly the book of revelations - there is some seriously messed up shit in that! I am not attempting to poke fun at the bible but I think we must look at such things in a very individual way. Everyone will draw something different from documents that they read. I might be entertained someone else might be enlightened and someone else might be disgusted - nobody can be anymore right than anybody else in the way they feel about something.

For me the key word is RESPECT. Without it everything is pointless. I respect everyones right to believe and at the same time I like to be afforded the same level of respect. In the course of listening to others it is amazing just how much you can learn. It doesnt matter if it is a believer or a non-believer it is all broadening your perspective and I think that is very healthy.

In the course of my personal journey of religious and self-being exploration I have recently had a clear vision of what life means to me. Again this is a very individual and personal thing so it will be different from person to person but it has boiled down to this. I was nothing before I was born. I was some cells and had no consciousness that I know of. Those cells developed and I became a person. When my body has run its course I will die. When I die I will be just cells again. I will go back to being what I was before I was a person.

The above may sound very simplistic but its taken a long time for me to come to a conclusion I am satisfied with. It is much more simple than trying to imagine where I am going after I die and thats why I dont subscribe to a religious theory because I cant see any credible evidence to back it up, none that would satisfy me. Then people will say "but what about all the people who have died... its nice to think they are going to be around again". I have thought about that and I think that they are already around us everyday in the things that they did and left behind and the time and effort they put in to raising their children and grandchildren etc, they are around us all everyday by the things they did when they were alive.

I dont see anything wrong with following a religion for guidance and understanding, I see the point and the benefits it can bring to people. I do think though that fundamentally most people are good people anyway and will take the right path and do the right things in their lives.

A lot of the time when people say "religion is the cause of all wars" and other things like that I cant help but think that, whilst it might have a degree of truth, the average follower of any given religion is not in it to harm others but often the people running religions have different motives than they publicly state... for example I believe:

Catholic church - goal is accumulation of wealth and power
Islam - world domination

Obviously there are a lot more but they are the main two I have a very direct interest in.


EDIT: I have sent the link to this thread over to a friend of mine who is a member on here. He is extremely knowledgeable on religions and religious history and I think he could add something to this discussion. Incidentally we are both involved in a wedding tomorrow. We were discussing earlier how we will handle not taking communion without causing offense or a scene.